Discussion in 'World 30' started by JPohlman, Jun 8, 2009.
Hmm, you've taken alot more than 1 or 2 ex Kraken's, don't forget that they are still our enemies
By my count, you've taken about 19 members now from the former Kraken tribe. Were they really the cream of the crop, or just a lot of points and you wanted them?
It's most informative to divide those 19 (I'll assume the count) into two, or maybe three groups.
Group one came over en masse in the first day or two of the war when KRAK-R, who had ties of friendship with us, decided they didn't want to follow the misguided leaders of Kraken, dissolved Kraken's western academy, and switched sides. Some of those were cream and are still around, while some were not and have since been eaten.
Group two came over one or two at a time later, as they realized (like also the best members of *XxxX*, +LOW+, and other tribes in the area) that CBTF is the best. (We're also very good looking, intelligent and modest.) They are also cream in my opinion, as shown by their successes both before and after, and were brought in selectively.
Group three - or two and a half if you prefer - have also been brought in selectively and are the best of what remained after the final, total collapse of Kraken. Those are the people whom I understood to be described inaccurately as a "merge" in the post above. They, like group two (and group one for that matter), have realized that we are the best. We have also accepted that they are the good warriors, not least because they have held out against us (and THE of course....) for so long while their non-cream counterparts have shrunk or been destroyed, and even after being abandoned by multiple sets of so-called leaders. They were no longer a threat to us, and we are stronger with them as they are also stronger with us. Logically, we brought them into the tribe.
I'm sure the rest of the remnants of Kraken would come over if they could; but they don't cut the mustard. For that matter, if CBTF wanted just points as suggested above, we would have kept players around whom we have long since nobled out. Speaking as our rules writer and discipline enforcer, I can assure you that hasn't been the case!
CBTF looks like an awesome tribe. So much cream, jummy!
Okay, I'll change that to, "good looking, intelligent, modest AND flavourful." Wouldn't want to leave out flavourful!
Actually, I think there are a number of very flavourful tribes out there, but if I go too far down that road I'll be in the top-20-tribe thread so I'll just leave it at that.
They held out against us because we hadn't gotten around to hitting them yet. I haven't quite figured out the code for "infinite nukes" or "infinite nobles" yet, so we're having to take over K23 the old-fashioned way. You can call it what you like, but your tribe still recruited 19 members of an enemy of ours. :icon_neutral:
I also expected a little more courtesy from you guys since our declaration on Kraken bailed CBTF out of a situation that would have been their demise.
A great explanation! One problem, though...
As you see, THE is at war with these players. And, THE has been since the start of the, y'know, war. So even as far back as your theorhetical Group One, yeah, that didn't change our stance toward them. Bad move.
Of course, the five or six players from yesterday is a much more pressing concern. But, as I'm already in comms with CBTF leadership regarding this issue, I think we can leave the speculation there. I'd rather give diplomacy a chance with regards to people I've known for a while, so lets cut the commentary now so that we don't stoke the fire.
Our demise heh.. Oh yee of lil faith...
For the record AK an Jp this was our (CBTF's) war before it was THE's war, I can even go back and dig up the ole posts to give you exact times of the war. If you would like my humble opinion about it, THE only pounced on Kraken after they declared on us for there own advantages.. Don't play it out like you did it for CBTF cause thats honestly not the case.. I could believe you if you said oh shoot we were just about to declare on them an now there gonna be CBTF's refugees, do your magic jp post our war decloration an make it out like were CBTF's saviors..
Also I'd like to note they are refugee's from our war that came before yours, it just so happened you were ready at the same time and they beat you to it?? So please don't come here an make it out like they were yours from the get go when thats honeslty not the case!
uhm, your also = the lenghtier paragrafe that came before it.
eh? Sorry but I honeslty don't understand what your trying to say :icon_cry:
Edit: I figured it out what you meant now ^^. Yeah I know I just wanted to note it again lol :icon_confused:
We were planning on declaring war on Kraken family for weeks prior to their declaration on you. In fact, they declared after we had started our initial attacks on them, because the land time for those attacks ws going to be the same time we declared. You're correct that we didn't declare to save you, or bail you out on anything, I never said that was a reason behind our declaration. It is what happened though... EreVos and Kraken probably (and I say probably only because we'll never be able to prove it) would have steamrolled through you guys.
Also, I'd like to note that CBTF didn't declare war on Kraken, so you can't really call them your refugees. THE -did- declare war on them, and were nobling them steadily. In fact, the day before your stage 3 refugee recruitment spree, we had taken over dominance of K23.
THE didn't recruit a single ex-Kraken member. Ever. If we had, we would have contacted you first as a show of respect.
Anyway, I hope you respond to JP's mail to you in-game so we can work this out.
I know you never said that was the main reason. Thing is tho, I see it all the time and it's in your decloration isn't it? Just sayin, I see that pop up a lot around here an it's getting a little ole like a broken record.
I know that we didn't declare war on Kraken that they declared on us but it's still the same thing either way(They win we become there refguee's we win they become our refugees, no?)..
Also replied to his mail.
1. Kraken declared on you, you had no choice in when the war started.
2. THE's attacks and declaration were scheduled to both hit at mid-night. So half of THE's attacks were already on their way, and (presumably due to bad communication) still declared on CBTF.
3. I know THE are good, but even they cant organize a full scale war and declaration in about 2 hours!
4. I don't mean to be rude, (and don't know the exact stats) but i'm pretty sure that THE took alot more Kraken vills than CBTF did, without constantly inviting the supposed 'cream'
I'd like to respond we also rimmed some of their cream.
Smersh was called their best player by their own leaders.
I only quote (lobsang,rankeed)
You should check out that we nobled Mcmguire, you should check his w6 stats, he aint a noob
We can add several creamed players we killed.
Off course i'm the first to admit THE took more caps then us.
It's impossible to count them, because kraken krak krak-p caps can't be counted since thise tribes disbanded.
and also most clean up against players who left smile? smile! !tls can't be counted.
But i think we had a very nice amount of caps.
You shouldn't forget in the beginning THE was like more then two time bigger then us.. this means 2x more nobles 2x more nukes... so it's only normal they have more caps.
Also don't forget in the first month(s) we also had to fight erevos.
And tbh i'm pretty sure we would have stand to both Erevos and Kraken.
We already hold againt erevos before the nap, so did we after the nap. We were holding more then decent against erevos ( it was mostly only dark2002wolf ansov and midgeneral )
(check the forever stats)
And tbh, we never saw one coordinated attack from kraken, we even hardly saw coordinated support to our targets.
Off course I admit kraken felt quicker due to the THE involvement.But they will have felt either way. After the first week half of their council had left, quit, or deleted. It's not so hard to fight a councilless tribe, even if they are bigger.
but actually this is off topic, we'd better start a thread : "why did kraken fall"
Sorry but that is complete BS, Kraken were huge compared you guys as were erevos, without us declaring of Kraken they would have had no distractions, and the players that joined you would probably have destroyed you, what is all this cream nonsense, the cream of Kraken is like being the tallest midget, hardly a bloody achievment. The point still stands you have recruited our refuges, and in my eyes they are still our targets no matter which tribe they are in
I'm kind of sad that this has become what it has, but...Well, when in Rome, right?
Here's how it breaks down. If, in this example, you acknowledge that the two wars were 100% separate (as we stated at the time), even if you acknowledge that CBTF's war was a whole six hours older, any recruits from one tribe or another is still a fugitive from the other. So, lets make up a guy named Bob. Bob is in Kraken. CBTF declares war at the zero hour. THE declares at 6:00 war time. Bob joins CBTF any time after THE's declaration, lets say...28 hours.
First, this makes him pretty much a punk. I mean, a day and a bit into war and he's running for the hills. Fine. People do that. Maybe he had a legitimate reason. CBTF? They're satisfied. THE? This has nothing to do with THE! Therefore, hasn't his status remained as it was - a subject to our war? Doesn't that mean that we don't have to acknowledge any relations we have with CBTF?
Bob, himself, doesn't exist, I think; instead, he stands in for one of nineteen players AK_Iceman cites are recruited. Now, some of these guys we just don't care about. They're not a problem. Some have even gotten some kind of consent from us! But others? Nope. Not at all. And those players are still operational targets.
Folks, this is the exact rationale for the "recruit my enemy, become my enemy" mindset. If THE declared first, then recruited CBTF's enemy, it would change nothing. If CBTF were allied with Kraken and THE declared war, and if CBTF then adopted Kraken players...It would change nothing. You do not recruit a tribe's enemy's unless you want to take that tribe on, or unless you have spoken to them about it.
We've adopted players we're at war with! Oh, yes! But we've been the only ones at war with them. They'd shown they were capable of putting up a decent fight! These Kraken guys simply showed they were experts at the 100 village dash when they've got a relentless THE and a merciful CBTF on either side of 'em.
Spot the hidden joke if you can. I'll e-mail ya a cookie.
I'm very upset with this latest cbtf's merging. We were nobling K23 for about 3 months, and you just merged entire continent in a day.
When the war started, we said we won't recruit anyone from K23. We stood to that and it would be fair if you've done the same. About those 19 recruits, personally, I'm fine with 14, they haven't unbalanced K23 much. But that trhird wave was shamefull. You litterally merged half of K23.
Let's take a look at your newest recruits:
miked's conquers 90% internal noblings
3aZoOoOZ's conquers like 99% internals
sanchy's conquers 99% internals
mikzy's even worse
and mosti's internals and some cbtf
yeah, cream of the crop you recruited....
And just for fun, let's compare them with their THE neighbors:
aco.mne's conquers 90% enemy conquers, literally 0 internal noblings
puiupuiu's conquers 90% enemy conquers, literally 0 internal noblings
Right i'm no one big or anything. But I was in Kraken. I have since fallen to both CBTF and TGoW. after the war had kinda ended.
Like I said i was never a huge player compared to the greats of THE, CBTF or Kraken, but when I asked to join CBTF-D, when I was within recruiting guidelines they told me I had to ask THE to drop my Refugee status in someway. Obviously this could not occur, but JP was polite to me all the same.
But what gets me is why when I got from CBTF that they were being careful about the situation, while this may have been BS to lead me along, they were just recruiting 'the best' from Kraken whenever they wanted. It just seems a little barbaric and suicidal.
Chip, you raise a very interesting point. See, this is part of the reason I was a big pro-CBTF-NAP person in my tribe - they sent you to ask me. Honestly, I would have let you go, too. Unfortunately, it seems they tried to trick both of us, and ultimately succeeded in...
...Buying themselves a day or two?
No! Nearly getting themselves a solid NAP-To-Alliance agreement! Whaddya know? Show us the respect we ask for, we show it right back. Buuuutttt such is the way of things.
Chip, let me know if I can ever lend you a hand. I don't offer it in ill faith.
Thanks mate. I'm just trying to survive from one way to the next at the moment.