The Deck Burns

[DeletedUser]

Hypothetical hypocrisy. As we didn't do it how can we possibly be hypocrites as you assume we would have. Still need to do it to call us hypocrites for it surely?

I disagree. If the intent was there, then hypocrisy is criticising our intent. We have not merged yet either.

How so?

W2V has always culled players that refused to participate, or were otherwise not teamplayers, rubbish, etc.

 

[scarlet ash]

I disagree. If the intent was there, then hypocrisy is criticising our intent. We have not merged yet either.

Where and when was the intent though? I thought one of the reasons Niyah left was because she was genuine and trusted W2V which then lead into her and MoM getting a sucker punch.

W2V has always culled players that refused to participate, or were otherwise not teamplayers, rubbish, etc.

I commend you on it, though that doesn't mean some players will be lower standards from many previous players on this world. However I guess that was my misconception of looking to deep into a made up reason in my mind as I guess you didn't say it anywhere . My bad.

EDIT: Neither am I saying W2V is full of below par players. I think many players in W2V are extremely talented, dedicated players who I am happy to play with on other worlds or have had the privileged of already playing with them previously on this world or on other worlds.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hmm, it's true that we've already lost some exceedingly good players, and it would only get worse with time. Niyah was genuine as far as we could tell, so she would have merged us at the end. That is where the intent was, and that is what I'm saying: If we had not backstabbed MoM, and MoM would have gained the upper hand instead and would be in our position, they would have merged us in (unless we preferred to war) and called it a day all the same.
We have less talent than MoM had at its height, but we have more activity/participation/dedication. I think that things like skill and # of villages doesn't as much matter as long as you have participation and teamwork.

 

[DeletedUser]

Where and when was the intent though? I thought one of the reasons Niyah left was because she was genuine and trusted W2V which then lead into her and MoM getting a sucker punch.

It may have been one of the reasons, but it was by no means the only or biggest reasons. There was already internal strife in MoM, an activity problem, poor diplomacy and recruitment of some players not of the standard required way before we declared. To put MoM's downfall down to Niyah's trust in us is somewhat after the horse had already bolted, so to speak

We declared because MoM was already a shadow of it's potential.

 

[DeletedUser84667]

It may have been one of the reasons, but it was by no means the only or biggest reasons. There was already internal strife in MoM, an activity problem, poor diplomacy and recruitment of some players not of the standard required way before we declared. To put MoM's downfall down to Niyah's trust in us is somewhat after the horse had already bolted, so to speak

We declared because MoM was already a shadow of it's potential.

Yeah, some players that didn't deserve to be in the winning tribe, such as members of Haul! and CODE eh? I would like to point out that all those members that were recruits that lived are now in the tribe alliance that is set to win the world. They are trashy and undeserving until they are yours, right?

 

[DeletedUser95593]

Yes.

If not:

W2V has always culled players that refused to participate, or were otherwise not teamplayers, rubbish, etc.

 

[DeletedUser84667]

So what your saying is MM and W2V are going to be kicking players like Sidd and MM is going to be kicking plays like Fajah and players like Bigjay?

 

[DeletedUser95593]

What I am saying is MM and W2V will be kicking anyone who refuses to participate, are not teamplayers, rubbish, etc.

 

[DeletedUser656]

They clearly won't, otherwise you'd have been gone ages ago

 

[DeletedUser95593]

They only keep me around because of my charming personality.

 

[DeletedUser84667]

What I am saying is MM and W2V will be kicking anyone who refuses to participate, are not teamplayers, rubbish, etc.

Yes, and how long as W2V/MM been calling players like Fajah and Bigjay garbage players...? W2V declared war on us because we recruited both those sets of players.

 

[DeletedUser95593]

Clearly they think under better leadership these players will do better. Is that so hard for you to understand...?

 

[DeletedUser]

We have employed far less espionage than MoM did, until the FARMA war. Even afterwards, W2V spying did not go to the same levels as pre-FARMA MoM. We've had snippets of info from [T], from irregular sources, without sits, given to us. We are good at making it seem like [T] was leaky as a sieve, but that was not the case.
Furthermore, in a straight fight at the time, I think we would have beaten MoM due to sheer inactivity.
Lastly, our attitudes to others have been no different than MoM's prior to the fall, [T] prior to their fall, or tribes like Haul, CODE, Old, sheep... Compared to other worlds, same story.

To continue your analogy: Germany would have taken Poland and France even with proper warning, without a doubt. The stigma here tends to be more anti-Nazi Germany than anti-Blitzkrieg.

That's what I was trying to get at, actually. Sorry for the confusion.
As for your attitude, your declaration on us included problems with the attitude of MoM at the time; concerning the discussion on hypocrisy; it's a tiny bit hypocritical to berate the attitude then, then assume the attitude with the pitiful excuse of "You did it... so....".

But whatever.


Edit: And also, if W2V cull subpar (who don't participate etc) players as efficiently as you claim (hi KT) - you are just helping my argument. You said that we can't have it both ways; if W2V are so efficient at getting rid of subpar players then surely regardless of how long the world goes on for, you will get rid of the subpar players for the world then, no? So regardless of how long it goes on for, the dominant power extending the world by a few months won't affect the level of player skill, right? You seem to contradict yourself a fair bit... That's unfortunate.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ah, but I'm not assuming the attitude, nor okaying it. All I'm doing is saying that you shouldn't make W2V out to be especially arrogant. It's the singling out I have issues with, if you will. If you have a line of 5 bullies, and then point towards one person and say 'this person is a bully', it will be taken as if he is the only bully, or by far the worst bully. Neither of these cases are correct here. That does not mean that bullying is acceptable, it simply means that they are all bullies and should all be treated as such, as opposed to picking one of them.

So no, it is not the 'excuse of you did it, so...', I am not excusing anything.
@rest; What choco said.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ah, but I'm not assuming the attitude, nor okaying it. All I'm doing is saying that you shouldn't make W2V out to be especially arrogant. It's the singling out I have issues with, if you will. If you have a line of 5 bullies, and then point towards one person and say 'this person is a bully', it will be taken as if he is the only bully, or by far the worst bully. Neither of these cases are correct here. That does not mean that bullying is acceptable, it simply means that they are all bullies and should all be treated as such, as opposed to picking one of them.

So no, it is not the 'excuse of you did it, so...', I am not excusing anything.
@rest; What choco said.

If you notice; I have agreed with you that MoM was no different. I'm not 'singling you' out, in anyway or fashion.... So... awkward huh? And if you treated MoM with hostility (heck, you declared and killed most of them/us off) then surely, it's no surprise if we treat you the same? You act like our attitude is misplaced or wrong; there were a lot of people who had a similar attitude to this in regards to MoM's arrogance and willful ignorance - in this case, we are all part of that bully cycle - however, the MoM of old (as pointed a lot) is mostly gone. Most of the players we have now are relatively new (since the gangbang). Whereas W2V is the current 'bully', so to speak. Not to say that MoM wasn't, but we aren't now. And tribes change; what changed MoM was losing. That tends to dent/destroy the ego of most of the big mouths.

As for your attitude; we had this conversation over several other threads, but your most recent comment from the last page;

Lastly, our attitudes to others have been no different than MoM's prior to the fall, [T] prior to their fall, or tribes like Haul, CODE, Old, sheep... Compared to other worlds, same story.

To me, this seems like it's saying "Well everyone else has done it so no surprise", type of thing. But about you okaying the attitude, I took that from our previous argument about W2V's arrogance from the W2V/T war thread; you mentioned again that others had done it as well.

However, when we were the current 'bully'; we had our fair share of righteous hatred and it was well deserved, in my opinion. But our time is over, due to our loss. And we have no qualms about accepting that we didn't exactly treat others as we should have (I wasn't even around at that time really as I joined MoM close to the start of the gangbang and the reasons for the war weren't just trigger reasons.)

MoM back then deserves the same attitude that I'm giving W2V. If you notice, feel free to check my posting history but you already know most of it, I also called MoM out on this attitude several times. I had a few very long arguments with Jed and Tiger and Sqid about it on the forums; so in no way have I ever singled 'w2v' out as much as you'd like to appear to make it so. MoM's retribution for their attitude, in a sense, was exactly what happened to us.
Edit: See above.

 

[DeletedUser84667]

Clearly they think under better leadership these players will do better. Is that so hard for you to understand...?

Leadership has no effect. You called out players as individuals and pointed out why they are complete trash or not worthy then recruited them yourself. W2V stated that there players who have not deserved to win this world, and yet through a series of tribe hopping they have found their way to a winning spot. All the bases W2V claims to have started war with MoM with is total bullshit if you are willing to accept these players now.

It should be clear to most of these players that they are just being used as cannon fodder against MoM and that in the end they will not be winning anything besides incomings from a tribe that did not accept them as a merger candidate.

 

[DeletedUser]

Like I said previously Dan; they're just stacking their numbers to get rid of us as fast as they can. It's somewhat touching, as if the odds weren't entirely in their favour anyway.

I do feel a bit of a double standard here with the recruitment too. Hence why I said I was disappointed Roo. But meh.

Edit; But I'm not surprised - one of my major beefs with W2V (and in turn MoM) was always the hypocrisy surrounding the 'top' tribe. They always seem to do one thing and say another. Like recruiting players who they have previously berated and called trash (which I understand was for propaganda, but looking back at their stats, understandable propaganda). Like Dan said, the intent with that recruitment is clear.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do feel a bit of a double standard here with the recruitment too. Hence why I said I was disappointed Roo. But meh.

Meh, only questionable person we got was Sidd, who happened to be a bit of a pleasant surprise in the participation area towards the end of the war once we finally put the north to the sword.

For that matter, when aren't you disappointed in Roo?

 

[DeletedUser]

I was disappointed in W2V (I assume the recruitment was not just Roo's decision).... so, yeah, don't see how that applies here James :icon_razz:

While I obviously disagree with a lot of his actions, I wasn't disappointed when W2V saw what they wanted and saw the perfect oppurtunity to take it, then went ahead and took it and since then have gone on to prove themselves, in some big part, down to not just the team, but also to the leadership. I'm just disappointed in the behaviour of the potential 'world winners'. As I said before to Glyn, I would hope for a more magnimous attitude; especially considering the last world war on this world (for the time being) will probably be MM and W2V swarming what's left of MoM; which despite any morale or skill or any tiny advantage we could possible have (but don't) or that we may have on our side, will almost certainly result in a conclusive defeat. If it's the war that will close out the world, I was hoping it wouldn't be at this level of pettiness as I posted in the other thread.

 

[DeletedUser95593]

Leadership has no effect.

On how much players choose to participate? Yes they do.

T had poor leadership, players didn't participate. W2V had good leadership, players did participate. As I said previously, they could have been trash under the previous, poor leadership. They have been given a chance to prove otherwise. If they fail to participate, play as a team, etc then they will be removed as would any other player in either tribe.