[THE TV] Decision on Hammerin'

[DeletedUser]

Get a few hits in before posting the declaration??:icon_wink:

:icon_redface:

Our K24 guys couldn't wait until the declaration. We haven't even gotten to the land date of our initial OP yet. :icon_razz:

 

[DeletedUser]

My concern in this isn't DECIDE or what they did or did not do in the past. This is about HAMMER and THE. DECIDE can speak for themselves on that.

Lets do some math so I can explain. It's pretty obvious that you're not a math guy.

If we assign a number to each tribe, lets say 2/2. Hammer is at war with half of THE and fighting all of BH. That means 1/2 of THE plus 2/2 of BH. That is 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

This is the same situation as DECIDE. They are fighting 1/2 THE plus 2/2 GREEN. That means it's also fighting 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

BH is fighting only Hammer. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
GREEN is only fighting DECIDE. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
THE is fighting half of HAMMER and half of DECIDE. That's 1/2Hammer plus 1/2Decide. That comes out to 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.

So are you understanding this a bit more? THE will be fighting two half tribes, not 2 whole tribes because their attention is split. Meaning they fight 1 tribe while HAMMER and DECIDE are fighting a tribe and a half each, mathematically. Hence a 3v2... and let's not forget BD. I mean, they always have some reason to jump in and not have to "declare".

Now I'm hoping you can understand that because I really can't explain it any more.

Your math is flawed though, as since both Hammer and Decide share the same border, only 1/2 of THE's eastern attention can be given to each, so you get 1/4 THE fighting 1/2 of Decide, and 1/4 THE fighting 1/2 of Hammer...

 

[spleen mage]

My concern in this isn't DECIDE or what they did or did not do in the past. This is about HAMMER and THE. DECIDE can speak for themselves on that.

Lets do some math so I can explain. It's pretty obvious that you're not a math guy.

If we assign a number to each tribe, lets say 2/2. Hammer is at war with half of THE and fighting all of BH. That means 1/2 of THE plus 2/2 of BH. That is 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

This is the same situation as DECIDE. They are fighting 1/2 THE plus 2/2 GREEN. That means it's also fighting 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

BH is fighting only Hammer. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
GREEN is only fighting DECIDE. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
THE is fighting half of HAMMER and half of DECIDE. That's 1/2Hammer plus 1/2Decide. That comes out to 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.

So are you understanding this a bit more? THE will be fighting two half tribes, not 2 whole tribes because their attention is split. Meaning they fight 1 tribe while HAMMER and DECIDE are fighting a tribe and a half each, mathematically. Hence a 3v2... and let's not forget BD. I mean, they always have some reason to jump in and not have to "declare".

Now I'm hoping you can understand that because I really can't explain it any more.

But you're wrong. It's not one half of THE vs. DECIDE and one half vs. Hammer. The entire western half of THE is still fighting our wars in the west. So it's only 1/4 of THE against Hammer....You think you're the only one fighting other wars?

 

[DeletedUser]

My concern in this isn't DECIDE or what they did or did not do in the past. This is about HAMMER and THE. DECIDE can speak for themselves on that.

Lets do some math so I can explain. It's pretty obvious that you're not a math guy.

If we assign a number to each tribe, lets say 2/2. Hammer is at war with half of THE and fighting all of BH. That means 1/2 of THE plus 2/2 of BH. That is 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

This is the same situation as DECIDE. They are fighting 1/2 THE plus 2/2 GREEN. That means it's also fighting 3/2 tribes or 1.5 tribes.

BH is fighting only Hammer. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
GREEN is only fighting DECIDE. That's 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.
THE is fighting half of HAMMER and half of DECIDE. That's 1/2Hammer plus 1/2Decide. That comes out to 2/2 tribes or 1 tribe.

So are you understanding this a bit more? THE will be fighting two half tribes, not 2 whole tribes because their attention is split. Meaning they fight 1 tribe while HAMMER and DECIDE are fighting a tribe and a half each, mathematically. Hence a 3v2... and let's not forget BD. I mean, they always have some reason to jump in and not have to "declare".

Now I'm hoping you can understand that because I really can't explain it any more.

Actually, Hammer is at war with 8 members of THE. Re-figure that into your equation as 1/5th (being generous). DECIDE are facing 12-13 of us, so re-figure that as 1/4th or even 1/3rd if you want to be really generous.

The rest of the tribe is either fighting on our western border, or securing our K's.

 

[DeletedUser]

But you're wrong. It's not one half of THE vs. DECIDE and one half vs. Hammer. The entire western half of THE is still fighting our wars in the west. So it's only 1/4 of THE against Hammer....You think you're the only one fighting other wars?

HIVEMIND!!!!

((I got there first Spleeny ))

 

[DeletedUser]

Your math is flawed though, as since both Hammer and Decide share the same border, only 1/2 of THE's eastern attention can be given to each, so you get 1/4 THE fighting 1/2 of Decide, and 1/4 THE fighting 1/2 of Hammer...

Noble exposure has nothing to do with nukes. That can be easily fixed by passing a village of to a tribemate so they are in nobling distance. I mean, by your logic, you're only fighting 4-5 members of HAMMER, which isn't true because we are one tribe. That's how we fight.

 

[DeletedUser]

But you're wrong. It's not one half of THE vs. DECIDE and one half vs. Hammer. The entire western half of THE is still fighting our wars in the west. So it's only 1/4 of THE against Hammer....You think you're the only one fighting other wars?

That's kind of like saying that we're at war with FU.ALL, DAD:F, or RFF... You can't use that.

 

[DeletedUser]

That's kind of like saying that we're at war with FU.ALL, DAD:F, or RFF... You can't use that.

No? Our other enemies are top 20 tribes as well, so they actually require a bit of attention. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

It's perfectly fair, we are declaring on two tribes on our eastern front, therefore it's only lke half of our tribe, as the other half is at war with basically the whole of the northwest....

Did we miss your declaration on BH as well, then? :icon_eek:

Pretty much all the players with any ability in the northwest are now concentrated into two tribes- BH and THE. Therefore it is really a stretch of the imagination to say that you're at war with all the northwest.

And, AK... you call what's happening on your western front fighting? And are you sure that those 8 vs Hammer and the 12-13 vs DECIDE haven't got any support from the rest of THE? Cause if they have, they can hardly be considered on their own.

The forever stats for THE against the four tribes that crispy mentioned are 51-8. Some fast-paced wars there... Also, the world has now come to the stage where top 20 is pretty meaningless- moving more into late-game, I would now say that down to about the PMP-ELITE. gap of ~12M points are all that could still be in contention for power in this world (rank 13 and above... so paj, you're still in it . That gap may seem convenient to some, but have a look for yourself- and remember that PMP are managing to annoy T-W-C still, but no-one's heard a word from ELITE.

 

[DeletedUser]

No? Our other enemies are top 20 tribes as well, so they actually require a bit of attention. :icon_wink:

They were doing a lot better. I kind of stopped following their disbands and whatnot.

 

[Crispycargo]

And, AK... you call what's happening on your western front fighting? And are you sure that those 8 vs Hammer and the 12-13 vs DECIDE haven't got any support from the rest of THE? Cause if they have, they can hardly be considered on their own.

His point was that the entire tribe is not able to focus on the eastern front. Not trying to determine what one calls fighting. And actually you're correct, most of the western players are using their own support to deal with the occasional skirmishes on our front. We haven't sent much support, if any at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's going to be a fun war to watch. I think BH will decide who wins it. They have their best chance at sniping down THE, unless they have the EGO big enough to think they can face THE on their own.

THE will never go South. West will never be any matchup. I hope THE won't be able to have easy pickings like they had so far. Hammer has to hold THE for as long as possible, then you never know what can happen.

 

[DeletedUser80229]

Goodluck to both sides

 

[DeletedUser92]

At this point, I really don't even care anymore. I guess we're the "bad guys" for declaring war on two tribes that had every reason to see a potential conflict coming. There's a lot I could say about just how much people knew, but I feel like it'd be rehashing the same topics. Then again, that's all I see - people make the same "argument" about issues, and when we say we don't want to deal with it we're "out."

Ad-Nauseum is not an acceptable debate tactic, it never was. Either you accept our argument or you don't. We don't care.


Since its been brought up, well, I'm looking at the maps over in that mappy thread. And, I see how to THE's west there are at least three tribes with CBTF and EreVos fugitives in them. Follow the "recruit our food, become our food" rule and you have those tribes we're at war with.

So, really, its unfair that Hammer and Decide fight us because that's 5 tribes to 1! Quickly, quickly!! We'd best call BD for help...

...Oh, wait, we don't answer to them and they don't answer to us. They do as they wish - if they choose to act against someone, it is not by our request. Rather, its by their initiative. So I dunno what you expect. I don't get where this conspiracy theory about THE secretly ruling BH comes from. Oh, wait, yes...I get it. You folks in Hammer and Decide need a tribe that can serve as an external threat and a powerful enemy. Never-You-Mind that your leaders made plans to fight us back in July, Never-You-Mind that a potential war should have served as a factor in any war against BH or Green. That's just a poor decision on your leadership's behalf, and that only leads to internal weakness such as players being inactive or, worse, wanting to abandon your tribe for the local giant.

But...When that Local Giant can serve as an enemy? A rallying point? Suddenly, you find a scape-goat. Suddenly its "THE's fault!" They're the "bad guys!" They're the ones who are "deceitful." Using spies! (Dodong?), declaring on us in spite of our advance knowledge they might do that - after giving them a week's notice about a NAP drop, when 48 hours was once the generally accepted standard of honor! Gasp! EVERYONE! Rally! Sally Forth! Defend Ye Bastions! We cannae let them win!


Look. We're not trying to say that we don't anticipate you guys being upset. We realize that, as you're at war already, and aren't NAP'd with every single tribe on your borders, you'll feel this is a bit unfair. We could have chosen a much weaker path - we could have picked one tribe, declared on it, then steamrolled them while telling the other we don't plan on fighting. We could have done what a lot of tribes do and start launching massive operations without declaring - the "they'll figure it out" school. We could have endlessly said, "We're not at war with you, I don't see how this could possibly be unfair. We're just expanding!" We could have lied and said "oh, no, we'll take the NAP back. We'll NAP with Decide," and then we could have dropped it immediately and declared war all within an hour and simply said, "we're not obligated to play on your standards."

Instead, we gave notice about NAP drops, far more than necessary. We never said we'd agree to a treaty we had no intention of following through. When it came time for us to act, we posted a declaration without excuses (I.E. justifications). And, we genuinely did labor over this decision. None of us liked declaring this war, but if we didn't we would fall asleep. I can't let that happen to my tribe, just as you can't let that happen to yours. If you feel any different and you're in one of these two tribes, just ask yourselves this:

How did TER feel when you declared on them, Hammer?
How did Green feel when you declared on them, Decide?

I bet they felt like you picked their weakest moments, but that didn't make you think twice, now did it?

 

[DeletedUser70594]

At this point, I really don't even care anymore. I guess we're the "bad guys" for declaring war on two tribes that had every reason to see a potential conflict coming. There's a lot I could say about just how much people knew, but I feel like it'd be rehashing the same topics. Then again, that's all I see - people make the same "argument" about issues, and when we say we don't want to deal with it we're "out."

Ad-Nauseum is not an acceptable debate tactic, it never was. Either you accept our argument or you don't. We don't care.


Since its been brought up, well, I'm looking at the maps over in that mappy thread. And, I see how to THE's west there are at least three tribes with CBTF and EreVos fugitives in them. Follow the "recruit our food, become our food" rule and you have those tribes we're at war with.

So, really, its unfair that Hammer and Decide fight us because that's 5 tribes to 1! Quickly, quickly!! We'd best call BD for help...

...Oh, wait, we don't answer to them and they don't answer to us. They do as they wish - if they choose to act against someone, it is not by our request. Rather, its by their initiative. So I dunno what you expect. I don't get where this conspiracy theory about THE secretly ruling BH comes from. Oh, wait, yes...I get it. You folks in Hammer and Decide need a tribe that can serve as an external threat and a powerful enemy. Never-You-Mind that your leaders made plans to fight us back in July, Never-You-Mind that a potential war should have served as a factor in any war against BH or Green. That's just a poor decision on your leadership's behalf, and that only leads to internal weakness such as players being inactive or, worse, wanting to abandon your tribe for the local giant.

But...When that Local Giant can serve as an enemy? A rallying point? Suddenly, you find a scape-goat. Suddenly its "THE's fault!" They're the "bad guys!" They're the ones who are "deceitful." Using spies! (Dodong?), declaring on us in spite of our advance knowledge they might do that - after giving them a week's notice about a NAP drop, when 48 hours was once the generally accepted standard of honor! Gasp! EVERYONE! Rally! Sally Forth! Defend Ye Bastions! We cannae let them win!


Look. We're not trying to say that we don't anticipate you guys being upset. We realize that, as you're at war already, and aren't NAP'd with every single tribe on your borders, you'll feel this is a bit unfair. We could have chosen a much weaker path - we could have picked one tribe, declared on it, then steamrolled them while telling the other we don't plan on fighting. We could have done what a lot of tribes do and start launching massive operations without declaring - the "they'll figure it out" school. We could have endlessly said, "We're not at war with you, I don't see how this could possibly be unfair. We're just expanding!" We could have lied and said "oh, no, we'll take the NAP back. We'll NAP with Decide," and then we could have dropped it immediately and declared war all within an hour and simply said, "we're not obligated to play on your standards."

Instead, we gave notice about NAP drops, far more than necessary. We never said we'd agree to a treaty we had no intention of following through. When it came time for us to act, we posted a declaration without excuses (I.E. justifications). And, we genuinely did labor over this decision. None of us liked declaring this war, but if we didn't we would fall asleep. I can't let that happen to my tribe, just as you can't let that happen to yours. If you feel any different and you're in one of these two tribes, just ask yourselves this:

How did TER feel when you declared on them, Hammer?
How did Green feel when you declared on them, Decide?

I bet they felt like you picked their weakest moments, but that didn't make you think twice, now did it?

Lol are you kidding??? GREEN was FULLY prepared for the WAR (least they were not at war with other tribe and they had stacked frontline for the time when we attacked ... Dunno with TER ..

 

[DeletedUser92]

So on October 2nd, you declared on Green knowing that THE might be a potential problem. The guy who posted that declaration, your former Baron and a highly influential player in his own right, more than once said it was likely THE might go to war with you. You'd even planned against us as recently as July, had even been in fence-sitting-cahoots with EreVos...

...But somehow you didn't ever see this coming?

It sounds to me like you're just making up excuses so that if you lose this war, you can say "it was a cheap shot." It sounds like you should have planned better, but didn't.

 

[xinryr]

Lol are you kidding??? GREEN was FULLY prepared for the WAR (least they were not at war with other tribe and they had stacked frontline for the time when we attacked ... Dunno with TER ..

Even so, do you honestly think we believe that Decide doesn't have several contingency plans for each tribe on your border?

 

[DeletedUser70594]

So on October 2nd, you declared on Green knowing that THE might be a potential problem. The guy who posted that declaration, your former Baron and a highly influential player in his own right, more than once said it was likely THE might go to war with you. You'd even planned against us as recently as July, had even been in fence-sitting-cahoots with EreVos...

...But somehow you didn't ever see this coming?

It sounds to me like you're just making up excuses so that if you lose this war, you can say "it was a cheap shot." It sounds like you should have planned better, but didn't.

Nop we planned Good. and this Plan success!! personaly I always knew THE was problem for DECIDE ... honestly was waitting this WAR long time ... Council Chose GREEN ... could not do nothing. EAT GREEN and and after this might THE ... so you gave us (mean myself) a great chanse to have two rabbit at the same time ... Just at that time i honestly liked the way how THE played the Game ... NoW Not ... but it changes Nothing .. its just my mind about the things you DID ... So we will meet on the cockpit ...

 

[DeletedUser70594]

Even so, do you honestly think we believe that Decide doesn't have several contingency plans for each tribe on your border?

Go and Share us what kind of Plans has DECIDE ... I dunno

 

[xinryr]

Go and Share us what kind of Plans has DECIDE ... I dunno

My point was that you guys should have had a plan for in case someone on your borders attacks you, not that you are hiding something.