The W16 megatribe

[DeletedUser]

It matters because you stated that your position gave you this ability to judge the rest of the world. I addressed your statement, and then you just dismissed it entirely, putting us back at square one with you being wrong.

Sure u can say ive made a judgement but im also recounting the accusations ive been hearing from plenty of other players also. Thats why i felt it necessary to bring up the subject. U can make personal attacks on me as much as u like but the topic stands to be discussed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sure u can say ive made a judgement but im also recounting the accusations ive been hearing from plenty of other players also. Thats why i felt it necessary to bring up the subject. U can make personal attacks on me as much as u like but the topic stands to be discussed.

Again, you've only posted a bunch of fancy words and refuse to discuss the information in my posts. Of course I'm going to attack you as a lousy poster who has no right to judge the world if you can't even adequately back up your own statements.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ive backed up all of my statements very clearly as those polite posters have noted... its just people like u who want to avoid my accusations and go for attacks on me rather than discuss.Sure ive written alot here and u can probably find some inconsistencies between some postings, for that i apologise but the core point stands as its nice and clear in my original posting. So lets not get pedantic and discuss the accusations.
.....U seem to have focused on whether my opinions r even allowed to be aired and given an explanation of what an opinion/judgement is etc... hardly worth us going off-topic for...

 

[DeletedUser]

You've stated that W16 is the most huggy world because the top 5 tribes "refuse" to war with eah other and that they are all allied.

You've shown absolutely no proof to prove this correct.

The only people agreeing with you are CBK and Alexhol. Everyone else has disagreed with you Ende, I've just gone further and I'm trying to push you into actually posting something worth posting for once, that is based in fact and has proof to back it up, not just some crazy idea that popped into your head.

 

[DeletedUser]

I agree with evetrything u write exceot the relevance of the previous wars... cos most of the players and tribes in those wars r now gone and we r left with all the players who r all buddied up.

Im not disagreeing that there r plenty of vets from the historical wars in W16 still here, and all of them have played a great part in forming the world we see now... im stating that what we r currently left with r tribes who r all buddied up.

Its very hard to argue with someone who's point keeps changing, you seem to be forming new oppinions as quickly as we can expose your previous ones as false.

All I'll add to that is that I believe your prediction to be just wrong, a top five merge or a top 5 war (well I'd say the issue is actually the top four but meh). Let's wait and find out.

 

[DeletedUser]

It all depends how you see things, and what is hugging for you.

A world does change with the time, (I dont remember who posted this but its not from me)

The beginning of the world is where alot of players join because it is a new world...

A bit time after, its the one who liked it and the one who are still alive in the core that stay there

After this, it is not only activity that decides whos can survive, but also strategies... (it has been bought up with the example of the good diplomacy)

More and more the world advance, only the best leadership, and teamworking with acceptable or good players in teams will stay.

People do have a tendency to Respect the good players and etc... it is probably why most of the players you encounter here do share respect.

So, more the world advance, the players find and get to know to more players and respect alot of them... and it gives a world where you could be happy to play with alot of the top players because you do respect them.

So, by stating this, we can say that it is maybe more huggy than at the beginning of the world, but we could say simply: more the world gain age, more he gain some hugs from the players. So this statement is true for all worlds.

You must note that here I always talked about players because this tendency to regroup is more between players. Then tribes get allies and merge sometimes, but these moves arent necessary because the players like eachother but only a good move for all players. Being in the same tribe does help also to know more players.

In family tribes we see this phenomen even more by merging tribes. I havent alot of personal experience in family tribes but the goal of good family tribes are to form most likely a single tribe. Usually, the different branches can communicate well but it does worl well if everyone is in the same tribe.

All this being said, time has passed, and its not a matter of small bunch of players now, its more a matter of huge tribes.

A tribe is a team of players... but count only like a single voice. This does mean that players tought and tribes acting are not necessary the same. So all the explanation and the judging about how a world is huggy must take in consideration the major power already in place. Good we agree on now the current top 5.

I extend it to the current top 10 maybe, I see them like 10 individual players trying to be the last one standing... When you are 10 millions, you do get some friends to help you stay alive, but it becomes more and more Free for all when theres less powers fighting eachother...

So, yes players are all a bit buddied up, leaders count as players... but tribes status is more formal and independent. We must agree that the players influence the tought and diplomacy of a tribe but the goal of good tribe is simply to get it to the top and care only if its good for them about other players.

With that post I simply want to show you that the tribes arent necessary buddied up, but allies for now. Maybe your right with your opinion but keep in mind that they cant stay buddied up.

The empire falls, but the peasants stay (not sure what is it in english, its a french quote) This means, the tribes can fall, change, merge, etc but the players will remains. Unfortunately, the fun of TRIBAL wars reside in the tribes and not in players opinion. If I was a tribe myself, I would say that it is less and less huggy because theres less and less tribes still alive, and they must at the end beat everyone to win

But you could consider that, in our current situation, because we are not fighting eachother yet, we are hugging...

 

[DeletedUser]

You've stated that W16 is the most huggy world because the top 5 tribes "refuse" to war with eah other and that they are all allied.

You've shown absolutely no proof to prove this correct.

The only people agreeing with you are CBK and Alexhol. Everyone else has disagreed with you Ende, I've just gone further and I'm trying to push you into actually posting something worth posting for once, that is based in fact and has proof to back it up, not just some crazy idea that popped into your head.

I think u will find that more people have agreed with much of what ive said than u give credit for... even CBK has said he doesnt agree totally in my points... I know u want it to be everyone against this statement but that just isnt the case. People have shown they have different reasons why they think the top tribes wont/are not warring... The only disagreement i can see is that i think there whould be a major merger and others think that there will be a war between the top tribes... i just cant see it. Of course this thread was gonna get everyone massively on the defensive, i knew that when i posted...

 

[DeletedUser]

I think u will find that more people have agreed with much of what ive said than u give credit for... even CBK has said he doesnt agree totally in my points... I know u want it to be everyone against this statement but that just isnt the case. People have shown they have different reasons why they think the top tribes wont/are not warring... The only disagreement i can see is that i think there whould be a major merger and others think that there will be a war between the top tribes... i just cant see it. Of course this thread was gonna get everyone massively on the defensive, i knew that when i posted...

Fine, you want to prove me wrong, just simply show me where "a lot of people" have agreed with you :icon_rolleyes:

Simple enough, eh?

 

[DeletedUser]

Fine, you want to prove me wrong, just simply show me where "a lot of people" have agreed with you :icon_rolleyes:

Simple enough, eh?

The best way to resolve this before Jurasu explodes in anger and goes on a rampage around the fourms is to set a deadline...

Something like:

"I bet you within 6 months there will still not be aware between two top 5 tribes."

Woop?

 

[DeletedUser]

Fine, you want to prove me wrong, just simply show me where "a lot of people" have agreed with you :icon_rolleyes:

Simple enough, eh?

Please go back to my original post cos ive made my points there.. its totally irrelevant where/who this feeling of W16 becoming a huggy world has come from, ive already said its from my recent experiences interacting with many players in this world... if anyone else made the thread u would happily discuss it, all u try to do is discredit rather than engage in the subject.... my points as to why its easy to accuse this world of being that way r in that 1st posting as well as my questions which need answering.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please go back to my original post cos ive made my points there.. its totally irrelevant where/who this feeling of W16 becoming a huggy world has come from, ive already said its from my recent experiences interacting with many players in this world... if anyone else made the thread u would happily discuss it, all u try to do is discredit rather than engage in the subject.... my points as to why its easy to accuse this world of being that way r in that 1st posting as well as my questions which need answering.

This post is exactly the reason why everyone disagrees with you. You refuse to give us concrete evidence and just keep stating that your own "experience" allows you to classify a world however you like.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes and ive given reasons for why its easy to label this world as currently the most huggy in my first posting which u refuse to even discuss.... just because i wont go offtopic and play the way u want me to doesnt make any of my statements/comments/opinions inaccurate. can i ask exactly how someone is meant to amass evidence over a view which is a result of an assessment anyway? Im making the point that this world is starting to be labelled a huggy world and tbh i can see why... if u refuse to discuss that then thats up to u

 

[DeletedUser]

At this stage it is not players opinion who allow us to judge of the hugging but the tribes status...

 

[DeletedUser]

At this stage it is not players opinion who allow us to judge of the hugging but the tribes status...

Totally spot on! Basically collectively all the top tribes positions with each other define if the worlds huggy or aggressive. And the fact there are not any wars between the big boys and have not been for months makes it easy to throw the accusation at W16.

 

[DeletedUser]

Let's suppose for a minute that Ende is right, and that the top 5 tribes should merge. The top 5 tribes (not even including Plight's, HRV's, and C²'s junior partners) have a total population of 326. We would need 5 tribes to fit them all. Seems... fitting.

Totally spot on! Basically collectively all the top tribes positions with each other define if the worlds huggy or aggressive. And the fact there are not any wars between the big boys and have not been for months makes it easy to throw the accusation at W16.

For months? PnX fell from the top 5 two weeks ago!
EDIT: My mistake, it happened longer than two weeks ago. However, when the war started, PnX was a top 5 tribe.

 

[DeletedUser]

Let's suppose for a minute that Ende is right, and that the top 5 tribes should merge. The top 5 tribes (not even including Plight's and C²'s junior partners) have a total population of 326. We would need 5 tribes to fit them all. Seems... fitting.


For months? PnX fell from the top 5 two weeks ago!

Yeah i thought that would be a problem if all of them tried to join the same tribe lol.... But im just thinking that maybe 2 of the main tribes will/should merge not all of them together... or of course they just become the family tribe that they all appear to be acting like lately anyway...

 

[DeletedUser]

Ok lets get to the biggest W16 point..

It is very well known that World 16 is very much a tribal hugs world compared to all the other TW worlds...

How? What proof to you have to back this up?

this is mainly due to the buttkissing which goes on between all the top tribes...

What buttkissing? Lets see some examples.

Its a world with not much activity and with far too many inactives,

All older worlds still going are suffering this. Some worlds started later have even less activity than us, take W27 for example.

and i would bet money W16 is one of the most AS worlds too (itd be interesting to see the AS percentage to players still in ratio)...

Too bad its against the rules

Can anyone point to any other world where all the top 5 are allies?

This is off topic and off point, especiallys since the top 5 in this world aren't allied, or even Nap'd

I guess its not the top tribes fault that they r all scared of each other because they know their own inactivity would screw them over if they took on another top tribe, its just a fact of W16 sadly.

Take another look at how high/low C2's inactivity is, and then you may wish to revise this statement. It is not fear that holds any of us back, but sheer preparation and self-preservation. Bang!?, TKR, Plight, and =HRV= are all at war, so it wouldn't make sense to declare on another, possibly larger tribe. C2 is still eating some inactives and rim players, just to completely solidify our grip on the southwest.

Add to this that all the regular active players r all buddies anyway and dont wanna war each other then W16 really is being painted as a bit of a non-event.

Being "buddies" doesn't stop you from warring. You can still respect and talk with a player at the same time you are fighting them. I've actually have friends in enemy tribes on one world that I talk to regularly on another. Being buddies has nothing to do with deciding whether to war or not.

Another fact is that not many good TW players r left in this world too... i explain... lets say a good player starts 5 worlds at the same time. He/she will do well in all of them but i guarantee u that when they come to the point they have to choose which world to focus on then W16 is the one the most likely get the axe. All of us tribe leaders know this to be true cos we have all lost v good players due to this. Of course some great players r still here but my point is that pound for pound theres not so many here as in othe worlds. This also adds to the fear of war between the major tribes.

All worlds lose good players. Whether to inactive or to wars, it happens. The beauty of tribalwars though is that good players come with experience. While we lose previously well-established players, other, newer players are allowed to step into the spotlight and establish themselves as an experienced player. Take Seagryfn for an example. A complete noob to this world, yet she's rank 3 and leader of the number 2 tribe. It ends up balancing itself out. Just because you choose not to acknowledge that fact doesn't void it.

What im going to ask is why dont all the main tribes simply merge?

Probably your stupidest question of this post. Let's see...Not enough space in one tribe, players would be vastly spread out, those left out could still overpower the top 80 (or whoever was chosen for this "megatribe"), the fact that it would simply take all the fun out of the game, and last but not least, it really would be us the "huggiest world" in TW. So, once again, you've just contradicted yourself, and you haven't even realized it.

U guys are never going to war each other so why not just join teams?

Think before you speak. Just because none of us are currently at war with each other doesn't mean that'll it'll remain that way for all time.

We all know who the best players are in this world by now and the world dynamic is such that that aint gonna change unless they quit for real life.

Yes, we all know :icon_rolleyes: Now would you care to tell us?

There are only 4 tribes in the whole top 20 who are effectively 'the enemy' thats Dust, Ad Inf, coal and PnX (only 2 in top 10). All the other 16 tribes in the top 20 r all buddies and will never war each other (ok Ad A makes 5 enemies and 15 buddy-tribes). Itll be a sad day when we are all gone cos im sure there wont be any wars only mergers.

Yes, we'll all cry when you guys are gone. And you forgot DmgInc. I'm sure they'll be highly offended about being left out.

I know the regulars will refer to wars between major tribes which have happened in the past but its exactly that, in the past. And more accurately a long time in the past!

Yes, Bang!? (rank 2) vs PnX (rank 5) two weeks ago was a very long time in the past, I can barely remember it!

Come on guys... lets get a merger done so we can have some honesty in his world!

Just point us in the direction of two tribes with enough space to merge. Again, think before you speak.

Its funny that everyone in W16 likes to criticise family tribes yet effectively thats exactly what all the top tribes are, one big family tribe. Complete with shared forums, msn/skype, sending of support, and moving players round etc.

Ok so how are we family tribes? Explain that.
Also, shared forums can be used for other things, such as noble claims to prevent cross-nobling or simply idle chit-chat. Skype is used for the same thing, keeping in touch with friends. Allies can't send support to each other now? And we can't move players from one tribe to another in a merge now either? Oh no!

PS i notice im second on the most hated posters in W16... id like to thank everyone who voted for me :icon_wink:

Sorry but I can't take credit for that. I voted for Jimmy.

 

[DeletedUser]

There's your first post Ende, and I've broken it all down and addressed all points. Now tell me where I'm wrong and back it up with proof, I dare you.

 

[DeletedUser]

Let's suppose for a minute that Ende is right, and that the top 5 tribes should merge. The top 5 tribes (not even including Plight's and C²'s junior partners) have a total population of 326. We would need 5 tribes to fit them all. Seems... fitting.


For months? PnX fell from the top 5 two weeks ago!
EDIT: My mistake, it happened longer than two weeks ago. However, when the war started, PnX was a top 5 tribe.

Ive already addressed this point further back... i used 'top 5' to refer to the clique and not the literal top 5 tribes at any given point in time... i apologise for this and wish i hadnt used 'top 5' term now... PnX were never in the clique and r not in the group of tribes im accusing of acting like a buddied up family.

 

[Seagryfn]

crikey where does it matter where the accusation comes from, just cos u dont like me dont mean i cant speak......

Ende, people react disapprovingly towards you because you precisely because you are "accusatory." You do not speak tactfully. The words you choose to prove your points offend people right from the start by insulting their right to have an opinion of their own; you begin posting by claiming that your own personal opinions are the only real truth.

Here is an example: Suppose a guy goes to a birthday party. The host serves him a slice of chocolate birthday cake. The guy then opens his mouth and makes this remark:

It is very well known that chocolate is very much a flavor only liked by little children... this is mainly due to kids' lack of exposure to sophisticated flavors.

The rude guest just disrespected his host by showing contempt for what he was offered, and he further insulted the 'maturity' of all the adults present (many of whom happen to like chocolate) by inferring their tastes are childish. If he didn't like chocolate, he could have just said 'no, thankyou' or 'is their another flavor available?' without offending the host and many of the guests. Sure, a couple guests who don't like chocolate either might agree with him. Maybe that momentarily strokes his ego. But in the future, the guy might discover he is not invited to many other parties.

Endemonadia, when you come to the forums to try to make a point, you are like the guest at the birthday party. The 'host' are the readers of the forum, and they are offering you their time to hear what you have to say. You disrespect their offer to listen to your words when you immediately begin telling them that their own opinions don't matter. Here is an example:

It is very well known that World 16 is very much a tribal hugs world compared to all the other TW worlds... this is mainly due to the buttkissing which goes on between all the top tribes.

Since over half the armies on W16 are controlled by the top tribes, your opening statement just called over half the server buttkissers. Way to go! You further insult any one else's right to have a differing opnion by claiming your information is 'very well know.' This is no different that the guest claiming that only unsophistcated children like chocolate.

PS i notice im second on the most hated posters in W16... id like to thank everyone who voted for me :icon_wink:

You would not be in that position of you did not always start your commentary by insulting your intended audience. You could have EASILY made the exact same points by being more tactful in your opening arguement. Here is an example of how this could have been handled better:

I have heard from people who play on multiple servers that feel World 16 is very much a tribal hugs world compared to all the other TW worlds... the reason offered most often is the belief that all the top tribes appear to be allied and thus will not war one another.

First, there are no assertions made that your statement is "well known," a statement you cannot rightly make because you've not spoken to a majority of tribal war players. Many arguements that evolve from your various discussions stem from accusations that 100% of people agree with your assessment (when, obviously, such is not the case). Avoid "sweeping claims" of possessing a majority and you avoid many arguements. Second, the reason is provided as an objective opinion that you have heard without being claimed as fact and without insulting the integrity of the reader.

I could go on and on, but this simple example should help to prove the point. If you want people to accept your view point... SELL it to them! Don't try to shove it down their throats. :icon_cool: