=V= vs Apoc

[DeletedUser]

Yes, your right although didn't BA have diplomatic relations afterward. Unsure if that's right or not but it's what I remember.

BA stayed allied with the UA/Apoc, just as they've always been and always will be. They simply decided to leave all the bureaucratic structure of the UA, but nothing really changed

 

[DeletedUser]

I have sat by and watched this thread go on and on about a bunch of stuff that never has or will matter.

I consider you my friend but this comment is crazy.

Apoc-D has never hidden behind any "meatshield" as you call it. When Zurtle and I started working on the merge of TWA and RKN it was SuperSweet who came to us and asked us for a NAP...he wanted the NAP with RKN-C and TWA-N3. The two tribes who merged to create Apoc-D have always been on the front lines. We never had meatshields. We pushed form K51 east and are all the way in K58 now. If MM and G-Khan were these great tribes who would destroy us why would he want a NAP?

If anyone had a meatshield it was MM who had Legion as a meatshield from Apoc-D.

MM's war agaainst Agression seemed to fizzle out with a cease fire and a failed merger. With Legion we beat them soundly and recruited a few of their better players.

You can talk about the greatness of MM and G-Khan all you want but the fact remains that Apoc has withstood the test of time and the two aforementioned tribes are dead and gone.

I know the truth about many things so please be careful my friend of calling us proxy using, gangbanging, HUGE family name calling...MM also tried the family thing but failed miserably at it.

This game is a war game. As in real life you don't go to war and plan to lose. You go to war to plan to win. There was a reason Germany, Italy, and Japan lost WWII. They were out-manned and outgunned.

Wolfy, read back. I didn't say -D hides behind the meatshield, I said the other Apoc tribes & allies hide behind -D. Having said that though, why was it so hard for you guys to form your Super tribe? Wasn't it coz you knew it would be much harder to have to fight these other 400+ members as opposed to having them allied? All you want is the easy win and that is your prerogative. For me that would be a very shallow victory in a war game and that is why I never joined Apoc, you know that. That's also why I don't look at 'Apoc' as an elite tribe. That's just my personal opinion though.

It's true that we are friends, we just play and think a little differently. Keeps it interesting

 

[DeletedUser]

Wolfy, read back. I didn't say -D hides behind the meatshield, I said the other Apoc tribes & allies hide behind -D...

So you're saying the rest of Apoc uses -D as the shield? Or what you said the first time:
"You cannot boast about your superiority when you have been lugging around a massive meatshield for so long."

Or are we just that "... mass recruiting, mass hugging, proxy using, inactive gangbanging HUGE FAMILY of tribes ..."?

Far as I'm concerned, each member of the alliance relies on the others - including BA and each of the Apoc tribes. Each tribe has their fronts to deal with and their own merits.

 

[DeletedUser]

Agreed.

 

[DeletedUser]

Are you seriously trying to say that Apoc (-D in particular) are not the equal (nay, superior) of the tribes mentioned?!? Bella, I have to say you appear to have taken leave of your senses!

I can only speak for Apoc-D but I think I can boast without fear of (reasonable) argument that Apoc-D can boast many of the best players on this server. The majority of those have been with RKN or TWA pretty much since the beginning.

Pick any of the tribes you mention at their zenith and they would still lose to us. No contest.

I'd like to point out that none of the Apoc family suffers in comparison to any tribe on W18...

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=165287&page=34

Although I'm not suggesting that all of the Apoc tribes could have taken on MM one on one, the point is moot as Apoc would/will never fight alone. We're a family. Like families or not you can't deny their effectiveness when managed as a family rather than a loose confederation of allies.

 

[DeletedUser]

BA stayed allied with the UA/Apoc, just as they've always been and always will be. They simply decided to leave all the bureaucratic structure of the UA, but nothing really changed

lol... you speak for BA now??...

 

[DeletedUser]

lol... you speak for BA now??...

Nice try!

Somewhat ironic considering Apoc's (and BA's) enemies have consistently tried to speak for BA. Of course only BA can speak for BA. Apoc cannot although I would like to think that Apoc can rely upon BA's friendship as BA can rely upon that of Apoc. Natasha's words are those of a good friend/ally.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice try!

Somewhat ironic considering Apoc's (and BA's) enemies have consistently tried to speak for BA. Of course only BA can speak for BA. Apoc cannot although I would like to think that Apoc can rely upon BA's friendship as BA can rely upon that of Apoc. Natasha's words are those of a good friend/ally.

Relax Andrew.... I was just pokin fun...

but nice recovery though...lol

 

[DeletedUser]

lol... you speak for BA now??...

I know it was a few pages ago but Peter who does speak for BA answered most of these UA/BA questions

[spoil]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsBella View Post
If Apoc & BA are so chummy, why did BA break away from the UA?
>

Ask Zurtle* for more details. As one of the TWA members I worked most with, he might remember. It had to do with several issues. One, I outlined in the DS thread here: http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?p=4948496#post4948496.
Zain was the only other Apoc leader who knew. It was a long time ago. But it was planned.
What you're structuring here is a simplistic "straw man". I never said BA and Apoc are "chummy." I never characterized the relationship as anything other than one born of trust, communication and time-consuming work. Obviously, this was to further the goals of both families. It is pretty standard game theory, actually. We played by a set of rules that all agreed to. And we trusted each other to follow through when our members broke those rules.

Here's another little secret from the UA split...
It didn't really change anything. Zurtle* can affirm - there was concern among UA leaders that the constant propaganda against the UA was creating morale problems inside the rank-and-file. There were some leaders who suggested staging a "fake split". I believe Zurtle* thought that this was the best route to take. At the same time, there were the issues with DS -- who actually WANTED a split. BA leaders had grown weary of the bickering between the leaders of the various families, and so we said -- let's do it all.
So, I (with Zurtle*'s and Zain's knowledge) helped remove BA from the UA. For people who did not know, it appeared to be a major rift had occurred. And there had - but it was between DS and TWA. Not BA. We just took the opportunity to save the alliance, avoid a DS bloodbath, keep active DS players playing the game, and continue our wars against T~S, GOC, FUSE, and A/S without adding another tribe into the mix.
This is not to say that BA's split from the UA was "fake." It was real. The UA governance structure did, indeed, go away. But the ties BA and TWA & RKN had continued.

And if you don't know... now you know.

[/spoil]

 

[DeletedUser]

was that peter who said that... I thought is was one of swordy's pranks...

 

[DeletedUser]

I must confess I didn't realise we had gone public on the "fake" split ;-)

 

[DeletedUser]

I must confess I didn't realise we had gone public on the "fake" split ;-)

You are correct.
There was no announcement that the UA was splitting. This was also by design. BA just sort of left. Eventually some folks realized, and there was discussion about it on the forums.
But we did not clearly delineate our positions - as it helped BA open talks with various tribes that were interested in turning us against Apoc.

Like I said - nobody was told about this except Zurtle & Zain. I recall Masterfool got pretty mad about it when he heard BA was backing out.

Andrew, you're right, there was no public disclosure of any "fake split" - mainly because there wasn't a "fake split." BA actually did leave the UA. But for people without knowledge of how the UA governing structure worked, the impact of this move was not obvious to them.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol... way to kill a thread Peter...

when BA exited from the family there was no big illusion that things were going to change... sure the leaders in the east had to check to see if things took a swing in their favor... but surprise, surprise...it didnt...lol The fact is w18 is all about big family tribes... anyone who doesnt think so really needs their head examined... Personally I still think you are all playing it safe and that is sad in my opinion...

 

[DeletedUser]

In my experience defining a strategy and not following through is pointless. I suspect BA's strategy isn't to provide entertainment for it enemies (unless those enemies happen to masochists!)

Assuming BA's strategy is similar to that of Apoc then "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!"

 

[DeletedUser]

In my experience defining a strategy and not following through is pointless. I suspect BA's strategy isn't to provide entertainment for it enemies (unless those enemies happen to masochists!)

Assuming BA's strategy is similar to that of Apoc then "if it ain't broken, don't fix it!"

Lets not kid... BA's strategy is exactly the same as Apoc's...lol

For the record... I never said BA's strategy was a bad one... just a safe one....:icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

Low risk with an excellent return. Two concepts that are rarely married. If my financial portfolio combined the same concepts I would be a very rich man!

 

[DeletedUser]

Hey Jimmy... you forgot to post weekly stats... here let me help you..

Side 1:
Tribes: =V=
Players:

Side 2:
Tribes: Apoc Apoc-C Apoc-D Apoc-N Apoc-H
Players:

Timeframe: Last week

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 39
Side 2: 32
Difference: 7

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 378,272
Side 2: 303,298
Difference: 74,974

 

[DeletedUser]

Congrats on the week =V=.

 

[jimmy513]

Congrats =V=, nice to see you guys striking back.
Gets kind of boring when a tribe is just getting spanked around

And thanks Lord Bad.
Completely forgot about that.

EDIT:
Not to lessen =V='s glory, but here is the stats with the people who have left as well.

Side 1:
Tribes: Apoc Apoc-C Apoc-D Apoc-N Apoc-H
Players:

Side 2:
Tribes: =V=
Players: Hironami ExplorerRC Provonsha Van Vader justageek wolveshowl mister.wolf Pranay98 Pryratio sporanox Karnstein

Timeframe: Last week

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 544
Side 2: 43
Difference: 501

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 5,148,393
Side 2: 416,505
Difference: 4,731,888

 

[DeletedUser]

Congrats =V=, nice to see you guys striking back.
Gets kind of boring when a tribe is just getting spanked around

And thanks Lord Bad.
Completely forgot about that.

EDIT:
Not to lessen =V='s glory, but here is the stats with the people who have left as well.

Side 1:
Tribes: Apoc Apoc-C Apoc-D Apoc-N Apoc-H
Players:

Side 2:
Tribes: =V=
Players: Hironami ExplorerRC Provonsha Van Vader justageek wolveshowl mister.wolf Pranay98 Pryratio sporanox Karnstein

Timeframe: Last week

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 544
Side 2: 43
Difference: 501

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 5,148,393
Side 2: 416,505
Difference: 4,731,888

I love it when you make my point for me...lol they left ... smoke and mirrors jimmy... smoke and mirrors