Notice to Aten

[DeletedUser]

From Aten's view.

-----------------------------

From my viewpoint CEG was defeated Ao5 won; Cake, HOT, RB (I believe?) left whilst achieving their objective.

After almost a year of warring and winning against massive numbers some sts decide it's time to throw in the towel. After noone else wanted to take their old leaders place Sts sought to seek refuge in HOT.

After informing Aten of what was happening, Aten refused blatantly any deal and wanted ALL St villages, one bad deed deserves another you might say? An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is how I saw Aten play it out.

After which it is found even the minimal sum of 200 villages Sts offered wouldhave been an improvement on what Aten managed to achieve when they assaulted Saintly villages whilst their owners were tied to a tree bent over.

I see scarus' viewpoint, but from our side of the fence that just seems incorrect

You can see whatever you like. Just prove you are right by winning the upcoming war.
TE

 

[DeletedUser2566]

From Aten's view.

-----------------------------

From my viewpoint CEG was defeated Ao5 won; Cake, HOT, RB (I believe?) left whilst achieving their objective.

After almost a year of warring and winning against massive numbers some sts decide it's time to throw in the towel. After noone else wanted to take their old leaders place Sts sought to seek refuge in HOT.

After informing Aten of what was happening, Aten refused blatantly any deal and wanted ALL St villages, one bad deed deserves another you might say? An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth is how I saw Aten play it out.

After which it is found even the minimal sum of 200 villages Sts offered wouldhave been an improvement on what Aten managed to achieve when they assaulted Saintly villages whilst their owners were tied to a tree bent over.

I see scarus' viewpoint, but from our side of the fence that just seems incorrect

nah, we just wanted to keep warring and having fun. thought you felt the same but no.. even the propaganda how st a was most aggressive tribe didn't seem to help you after all, or how immovable it was told to be. whatever comes, comes, aten still won't claim anything more than that we'll fight as before.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well the viewpoint doesn't really matter. The facts of the thing is that our "ally" invited in a tribe we had been fighting for a considerable time, a tribe they knew we wanted to continue fighting, a tribe we had turned down peace offerings from since we didn't see how that would benefit us. Then when HOT pulls their stunt they know exactly what they are doing and what it will lead to.

yeah sure Aten was big, Aten could be a threat, Aten could rule the world..that might be true but its still just statements that tries to justify an act that people deep down know to be wrong considering the fact that Aten and HOT where allies.

Sorry..there is no other viewpoint to this, there are just bad excuses to why it was done. But its done and it has changed the playing field dramatically.

Alright, see now we can talk. The big picture is that these family tribes are in actuality very large alliances. They are tribes that have changed their tribe tag to match the name of the alliance. If your tribe tag isnt similiar then your allegiances lie elsewhere. Your two alliances may work together for awhile but that can change when its no longer in the best interest of both alliances.

It appears the Hot Alliance no longer felt it was in their best interest to see the Aten alliance completely break the Saints alliance. Because then the Aten alliance would have less need to work with the Hot alliance. So they made a move knowing that the Aten alliance would either accept it and continue to work with the Hot alliance or that they wouldnt accept it and what the Hot alliance feared would happen in the future would come to play now instead. Considering an Aten alliance that hasnt eaten up the Saints alliance isnt quite as dangerous to the Hot alliance, the Hot leaders thought it would be best for Their alliance.


The point is, there is a REAL difference between the alliance held between tribes that share the same family tag and an alliance held with tribes that share a different family alliance tag.

The Aten alliance will do whats best for them, the TW alliance will do whats best for them and the Hot alliance has done and will do what they feel is best for them.

Sooner or later the Aten alliance would have had to rethink some of its diplomacy. Thats just fact, I guess the Hot alliance felt there was possible chance they could be dropped later due to possible strained relations. I dont know, just speculating at that.

Point being, there is a real difference between some of the alliances made in this game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice presentation of facts. But a little bit inaccurate. Hot alliance lost the ATEN alliance by making faults:Taking in Saint alliance.
Despite the fact above it was a good post.
TE

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice presentation of facts. But a little bit inaccurate. Hot alliance lost the ATEN alliance by making faults:Taking in Saint alliance.

Here:

It appears the Hot Alliance no longer felt it was in their best interest to see the Aten alliance completely break the Saints alliance. Because then the Aten alliance would have less need to work with the Hot alliance. So they made a move knowing that the Aten alliance would either accept it and continue to work with the Hot alliance or that they wouldnt accept it and what the Hot alliance feared would happen in the future would come to play now instead.

 

[DeletedUser]

Here:

I dont think HOT thinks like that.
TE

 

[DeletedUser3160]

Well then we are in agreement :icon_wink:

I UNDERSTAND why they did it, hey I would want that to happen to if I was in HOT. That does not mean I ACCEPT what happened (of course since I am in Aten).

My only point here is that HOT knew what they where doing and what it would lead to, to state anything else is pretty hopeless. If they had gone out and said clearly that they see Aten as a threat to HOTs future growth and existence and that they because of this have decided to include the St. family in to HOT. At the same time also made it clear that the passing of time have rendered the alliance between HOT and Aten ready for the junkyard of history, THEN I would actually have some respect for them.

Now however they wanted to not only to have the cake and eat it, but also the entire bakery by trying to get Aten to start a war between Aten and HOT. In this way securing the popular vote of the rest of W2. Well that is just playing chicken. They should have shown they had some cohones instead of the game they tried to play. It gets extra pathetic if you look at the signature of their leader....:icon_rolleyes:

but hey, it will be fun :icon_biggrin:

 

[DeletedUser]

I dont think HOT thinks like that.
TE

Thats opinion.


To Taz, I cant really delve too much into your reply post because it would require me to be in the heads of Hot leaders. I dont know all the reasoning behind their actions but from a political standpoint of attempting to preserve some balance of power I can completely understand why it was done.

Yeah yeah, there I go with that balance of power theory of mine right? :lol:

 

[DeletedUser2566]

Alright, see now we can talk.....

long story short, hot pushed us to drop them sooner or later with that move.
and yes, i understand that hot did what was best to them, "let's screw aten, allies are just colors on the map blah blah"

 

[DeletedUser1125]

Aten

To say the most realistic viewpoint is the Aten viewpoint once again goes back to the problem that is making aten more solitary.

You criticize Aten players for wearing blinders as to the positions of others, yet this is a blatantly bias viewpoint. As far as I can tell Aten is not the least bit "solitary". I have very frequent exchanges with many world leaders, and other than an occasional TW Hothead, we rarely see anyone other than HOT players bashing Aten here.

This was one of ST's and now HOT's favorite propaganda ploys. The continuous posting, and reposting that nobody likes Aten. It didn't work for ST and won't work for HOT either, although it does appear that at least one former HOT player believes it....lol

You really can't have it both ways. Either Aten is merging with everybody, or nobody likes Aten.

Just more propaganda that has little to do with reality.

Scarus

 

[ionela]

lol

hot should have told aten that if they merge with our enemies the alliance will drop asap. its been 2 weeks now? bacause thats what they promissed to st no?
if they merge in hot, hot will fight with aten in order to protect them.

 

[Dougalo7]

long story short, hot pushed us to drop them sooner or later with that move.
and yes, i understand that hot did what was best to them, "let's screw aten, allies are just colors on the map blah blah"

Well sh*t. If someone didn't do something then the world would have ended up with 3 super tribes all fighting to eat inactive players until one grand-simcity player was left.

What I don't think you realize is that what is happening now was inevitable. From your point of view, ATEN was crushing Sts. At somepoint the strain on Saints would have been too great {with some of their leadership leaving} which would have lead to their disolution. Where would the players have gone?! Certainly not to Aten. They would have moved to TW or HOT. ATEN would then have proclaimed them all runners and demanded that TW/HOT boot them from their tribes. {Which probably wouldn't have happened}. So then what you would have had was no targets and Saints having merged into TW and HOT. Basically you would be in the same position as you were in before, only there would be a lot of voices within HOT AND TW calling for a war with you.

As it stands, it is only HOT that seems to be jonesing for a confrontation. So why not just accept what happened and move on?

 

[DeletedUser1125]

Aten

Thought I would post this before there was a lot of propaganda about Aten not respecting some kind of imaginary 48 hours ceasefire.

What has happened is that Aten notified HOT that we have downgraded our diplomacy with them to a nap, and HOT said no thanks, they are not interested in a nap with Aten.

At that time ColVa said that he would not drop diplomacy with Aten for 48 hours. That's fine, but I don't see how that really binds Aten in any way. Messages from HOT leaders have advised their players that once HOT drops their internal diplomacy that individual HOT players should grab whatever "tasty" Aten vils are nearby. We also have been advised that HOT is now "claiming" Aten vils, and that at least one HOT branch has already dropped Aten to red.

I would be very, very, surprised at this point if too many of the Aten branch leaders were taking orders from ColVa. As far as I, individually, am concerned, we offerred HOT a Nap and they unequivically rejected it. Why in the world would I show HOT as a nap now?

Scarus

 

[olivar]

This was one of ST's and now HOT's favorite propaganda ploys. The continuous posting, and reposting that nobody likes Aten. It didn't work for ST and won't work for HOT either

I must step in here scarus, I believe you're incorrect, even though this was not an aim for the Sts to embarass Aten on the forums it did work and it did have an effect undoubtedly.

Many of us saw the effect that the mass burn CEG thing had on the forums and we utilised our almost anticelebrity/infamous status to pass the buck elsewhere.

Even thoughin my mind, obviously not in your own Im still adament today that 95% of what all Sts players said about Aten in P+P was correct, we just used the information we had for the greater good, which paid off long term for us.

now next on the agenda is the bad ass monkey; as much as you flame, and as much as we retalliate we still love you kai? I think you just need a big hug

Nb..I've had a little break from Tw recently which is why I seem a little lighter than air, Im not on prozac!

 

[Colossus_of_VA]

Most of your assumptions are not correct, the only "order" I have given regarding Aten "targets" is that there aren't any until I approve them and I'm not inclined to do so at this time, as far as "claim lists", I have neither seen nor asked for any claim lists.

Your diplomacy settings are your problem, I set the 48 hour time so no one could say that HOT "pulled a fast one", If Aten chooses to attack without warning then we are ready to deal with that, we choose to give Aten ample time to inform their members.

 

[DeletedUser2566]

lol.. like we had maybe 3 days to choose if we let you merge st? or nopes, it wasn't of our choosing.. but like that would been something else than "fast".

now next on the agenda is the bad ass monkey; as much as you flame, and as much as we retalliate we still love you kai? I think you just need a big hug

was that directed to me?


dougalo, you're just like former hot, your reasoning suck bad, the rest of it are just assumptions. without hot merging st i'm quite sure that tw would've kept warring xig etc. more than st saved themselves by running, hot saved themselves, yet maybe doomed as well. that will be seen.

 

[DeletedUser1125]

Aten

Most of your assumptions are not correct, the only "order" I have given regarding Aten "targets" is that there aren't any until I approve them and I'm not inclined to do so at this time, as far as "claim lists", I have neither seen nor asked for any claim lists.

Your diplomacy settings are your problem, I set the 48 hour time so no one could say that HOT "pulled a fast one", If Aten chooses to attack without warning then we are ready to deal with that, we choose to give Aten ample time to inform their members.

You really should get out more. I don't know if this is just an example of the "see no evil, hear no evil" defense, or if we really do know more about what's going on inside HOT than their leaders do....lol

How could most of my assumptions be wrong? I have assumed nothing. Everything in my post was a fact. I, myself have seen HOT claims on Aten players in both the north, and the south, and here's an example of the type of messages that are flying around HOT now:

"Ok guys... here's the deal...

Today Aten leadership notified us and the other major powers of the world that they were dropping HOT to NAPs. This is unacceptable. We are going to formally notify them that we are not accepting anymore NAPs at this time, and that in 48 hours they will be dropped to neutral status.

What that means for you guys, is that once I remove the NAP status from your maps, they are just another tribe without diplomacy with HOT. We are not declaring war at this time, but you are free to attack them if they have any tasty villages in your area.

It is, however, the order of the high command that no one attacks mikeys, and I will second this. Mikeys has always been a friend to HOT, and for that he gets a free pass at this time.

With all this being said, I want anyone in the NE danger zone to notify me of which villages they need support sent to. I know that Exodus and I are both in that area, but I'm not sure who else is in trouble up here. I want to get support for SW members from you guys before I call on the other tribes.

And just an aside... if you know of people in Aten that don't want to be there, I'd tell them to leave before that NAP status is gone. We aren't declaring war... but that doesn't mean Aten won't."

Doesn't look like too many HOT players are sitting around waiting for that authorization that you're not inclined to give....lol

Scarus

 

[Mantho]

Sorry, can't agree with you. Aten and StW did not join forces until after HOT told Aten to stuff their objections to the St merger.

HOT was wanting to attack StW together with Aten, but we're not really interested in hitting friendlies.

ROFLMAO now this is funny, It was in Atens reponce to Ry-fi THEY suggested attacking STW wow just wow

 

[Mantho]

"This is how we see what has happened between HOT and Aten. HOT had a chance to continue warring against the broken up CEG tribes, but chose not too, then after almost a year of us beating down ST, HOT steps in and supports them, and promises them that if they merge with HOT, that HOT will go to war with Aten to protect them. This is exactly what happened. HOT made this promise to ST, in writing, and moved forward. Once HOT started supporting Aten's enemy, merged with them, and promised to war against Aten on their behalf, how could this have ended up otherwise than it is now?"


are u saying that HOT was affraid of ST ? thats why they wanted to merge?

u havent seen anything yeat..

LOL even Atens members dont know the truth. want me to post my support to mikey and ide? You see you have your facts wrong and a usual Aten does.

 

[DeletedUser7529]

You really should get out more. I don't know if this is just an example of the "see no evil, hear no evil" defense, or if we really do know more about what's going on inside HOT than their leaders do....lol

How could most of my assumptions be wrong? I have assumed nothing. Everything in my post was a fact. I, myself have seen HOT claims on Aten players in both the north, and the south, and here's an example of the type of messages that are flying around HOT now:

"Ok guys... here's the deal...

Today Aten leadership notified us and the other major powers of the world that they were dropping HOT to NAPs. This is unacceptable. We are going to formally notify them that we are not accepting anymore NAPs at this time, and that in 48 hours they will be dropped to neutral status.

What that means for you guys, is that once I remove the NAP status from your maps, they are just another tribe without diplomacy with HOT. We are not declaring war at this time, but you are free to attack them if they have any tasty villages in your area.

It is, however, the order of the high command that no one attacks mikeys, and I will second this. Mikeys has always been a friend to HOT, and for that he gets a free pass at this time.

With all this being said, I want anyone in the NE danger zone to notify me of which villages they need support sent to. I know that Exodus and I are both in that area, but I'm not sure who else is in trouble up here. I want to get support for SW members from you guys before I call on the other tribes.

And just an aside... if you know of people in Aten that don't want to be there, I'd tell them to leave before that NAP status is gone. We aren't declaring war... but that doesn't mean Aten won't."

Doesn't look like too many HOT players are sitting around waiting for that authorization that you're not inclined to give....lol

Scarus

How come I didn't get this mail. Like forreals..