Religious Debate

[DeletedUser96141]

I find the entire idea of religion entirely ludicrous, and probably the greatest delusion of man that exists today or has ever existed. In fact to hold religious beliefs about the creation of the world, and in particular the afterlife stops you from admiring the wonder that is evolution and the beauty in some peices of work such as Darwin's Theory of Evolution.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion, nothing is more true than that statement seeing as there is a discussion of Islam here at the moment going to give an example of such. The nineteen men of 9/11, having washed, perfumed themselves and shaved their whole bodies in preparation for the martyr’s paradise, believed they were performing the highest religious duty. By the lights of their religion they were as good as it is possible to be. They were not poor, downtrodden, oppressed or psychotic; they were well educated, sane and well balanced, and, as they thought, supremely good. But they were religious, and that provided all the justification they needed to murder and destroy. Their madrassas and their mullahs had given them good reason to think they were on a fast track to paradise.

The fact remains that Religion is not a belief, nor a view which one wishes to express in their chosen way but it is an infection like a virus that is persistent and if infected at a young age almost impossible to get rid off. I personally believe that introducing a child's mind when it is particularly likely to take what it is told at complete face value and believe it without question is paramount to child abuse. Parents have no right I believe to force a religion upon a child and should not do so, but to allow the child to grow within a stable loving environment and when it is at an age to decide for itself it can chose a religious or atheist path of the religion of its choosing. Again I think it is wrong to define a child by their religion as we do, thats a Christian child, thats a Muslim child, a Jewish child we do not define children by their parents political views a Socialist child, a Capitalist child and so on to do so with religion is entirely the same.

Sorry long post!

hmmmmmmmmmmmm for 9/11 there are COUNTLESS documentaries which show that the US government were behind it all in all.

You know Usama Bin Laden, and his videos. Well i have and in all of them he has a gold ring on, which is Haram in islam, you would have thought he was an extremists, then why is he wearing it?

 

[DeletedUser96141]

Huh? What makes you think the universe is in control? All matter in the universe is constantly moving. Stars (like our sun) explode all the time, and galaxies DO collide from time to time. Why not every galaxy collide with each other at the same exact time? I don't know, but if anything I would think it would take a much higher power to make everything crash at the same time like that, seems irrational.
Then how come these particles are moving? Who made them? How come they hav like one law, this shows the unty of God and the univers


Indeed if everything the prophets have done in all religions were true it would be harder to deny the existence of a God. The problem comes from believing what they say. You are trusting everything that is written in the book to be true, he could have easily learned how to write then wrote it, found someone who knew how to write then wrote it, or someone else entirely could have wrote it. Those all seem to be more probable than an invisible man from the sky told him to write it.

For that i cant do anything to you to believe it.

bold

 

[DeletedUser47572]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm for 9/11 there are COUNTLESS documentaries which show that the US government were behind it all in all.

You know Usama Bin Laden, and his videos. Well i have and in all of them he has a gold ring on, which is Haram in islam, you would have thought he was an extremists, then why is he wearing it?

Completely irrespective of who is supposedly behind it, the fact remains that those that made martyr's of themselves did so because they followed a religious belief if they did not have that belief they would not have done it.

 

[DeletedUser]

Then how come these particles are moving? Who made them? How come they hav like one law, this shows the unty of God and the univers

From the momentum and energy released from the big bang. The big bang before that is unknown but I support the theory of the universe being continuous and the big bang the result of colliding universes that happens periodically. What law are you referring to also it is speculated that other universes have different laws of physics.


http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/12/was-the-universe-created-not-by-a-big-bang-but-by-a-collision-with-a-parallel-universe-two-of-the-wo.html

 

[DeletedUser96141]

From the momentum and energy released from the big bang. The big bang before that is unknown but I support the theory of the universe being continuous and the big bang the result of colliding universes that happens periodically. What law are you referring to also it is speculated that other universes have different laws of physics.


http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/12/was-the-universe-created-not-by-a-big-bang-but-by-a-collision-with-a-parallel-universe-two-of-the-wo.html

how are you sure this is true, it is only a theory, and has a 1/100 chance of being correct!
And how do you know that god didnt make the big bang happen?

 

[DeletedUser47572]

how are you sure this is true, it is only a theory, and has a 1/100 chance of being correct!
And how do you know that god didnt make the big bang happen?

One simple logical deduction. All religions claim that god created the world this is a universal belief spanning all religions thus everything was destined and everything was created.

If everything was created who created god? It is illogical to say he/she/they were always there the entire basis of the argument is that everything was created thus god must have been created.

 

[DeletedUser96141]

One simple logical deduction. All religions claim that god created the world this is a universal belief spanning all religions thus everything was destined and everything was created.

If everything was created who created god? It is illogical to say he/she/they were always there the entire basis of the argument is that everything was created thus god must have been created.

So be it!

p.s. what is your avvy?
isnt it the symbol of an ancient religion? Ahura Mazda?

 

[DeletedUser47572]

No its not its the cap badge of the Parachute Regiment, British Army my regiment.

 

[DeletedUser]

The fact remains that Religion is not a belief, nor a view which one wishes to express in their chosen way but it is an infection like a virus that is persistent and if infected at a young age almost impossible to get rid off. I personally believe that introducing a child's mind when it is particularly likely to take what it is told at complete face value and believe it without question is paramount to child abuse.

Likening faith and religion to child abuse.. ha.

Thats radical. Your view is right on par with s lot of Veterans I talk with though.

I don't care who you are the human nature needs faith in something greater than itself to be healthy. Your platoon
Religion--is no more than a set of beliefs that tell people how they should act and they happen to parallel in the same sort of values the military has.

You haven't meet the preachers daughter or the Back door Catholic girl yet? ha The more pressure a parent exerts and tries to change an adolescence youth the more the teen will push away. They are in that stage of rebellion. Don't even try to tell me a developing kid at the age of 3-4, whom just experienced his first death in the form of a gold fish, the hamster...your pet dog rover should not be told "he is in a better place now"..or whatever it maybe. I will throw that slop right back in your face and say the real case of child abuse would be changing the channel on "All dogs go to heaven".

What are you going to tell your three your old when the inevitable what happens when you die question is popped?
Ya little johnny just like your pet that died 4 months ago your gonna be gone from this world forever...your going to go to sleep and never wake up Think about it man. That is the type of bull crap that will scar a kid for life... not taking them to the church's picnic.

I hope to God you are not planning on having children anytime soon =)...lol

Cheers

 

[DeletedUser47572]

Likening faith and religion to child abuse.. ha.

Thats radical. Your view is right on par with s lot of Veterans I talk with though.

I don't care who you are the human nature needs faith in something greater than itself to be healthy.
Religion--is no more than a set of beliefs that tell people how they should act and they happen to parallel in the same sort of values the military has.

Sorry I disagree that the military tell you how to act perhaps in some regiments and corps however certainly not within the elite and special forces as I was where they want thinking soldiers, however this is entirely a moot point. I do not think that human nature requires faith in anything whatsoever in fact I would argue that the people which I know are happiest are all atheists as I am, I do not see the connection between a balanced and enjoyable healthy life and religion, in fact I would argue the opposite as I did already, that belief in a religion in many regards forces you to go through life with a set of rules that goodness forbid you break you will spend an eternity in hell. Religious people spend so much of their lives fearful of what will happen in the after life they never actually live the life they have to its fullest extent.

You haven't meet the preachers daughter or the Back door Catholic girl yet? ha The more pressure a parent exerts and tries to change an adolescence youth the more the teen will push away. They are in that stage of rebellion. Don't even try to tell me a developing kid at the age of 3-4, whom just experienced his first death in the form of a gold fish, the hamster...your pet dog rover should not be told "he is in a better place now"..or whatever it maybe. I will throw your slop right back in your face and say that is the real case of abuse.

What are you going to tell your three your old when the inevitable what happens when you die question is popped?
Ya little johnny just like your pet that died 4 months ago your gonna be gone from this world forever...your going to go to sleep and never wake up Think about it man.

I hope to God you are not planning on having children anytime soon.

I have a 3 year old girl actually 4 in March, and my partner who lives with me has a girl the same age. I do not agree that misleading a child to believe in something which there is no basis of proof for as being kinder than the truth. If my children want to believe and follow a religion they are more than free to do so, however I will not introduce them to one.

I agree completely with your point on adolescent young people however it is the stage prior to that the formative years where children are introduced to religion which I find completely abhorrent. I would prefer to be honest the pet has died (it has already happened) the kid accepted it no problem at all without any fuss, upset or otherwise.

 

[DeletedUser]

Right their is no issue in the fact of death it is concrete acceptance the issue is how to explain "Death".
A child of that age is most certainly not ready to cope with the reality of death on the same level as you and me.
Even if you do not believe in an afterlife...a child at that age needs a "white lie"...


When and if that day comes when your child asks "daddy where do we go we die"--I hope you choose your words wisely.
And by refusing to expose her to no "after life" believes, as simple as "you fish is in a better place now". They can find out later in life your view's on the matter but if from the go you fail to acknowledge the remote possibility of their being a "heaven, a God..ect do your daughter you are in fact doing the very thing you say you intent not to do! You are exposing her to the religion of atheism. And I do not wish to kick the can of worms debate about is Atheism in fact a religion. I believe it is so..

atheism is a religion. Whether it fits technically with the semantics or not is not a concern of mine; the practical definition of religion is what matters to me, not the letter of the law. And the practical definition, distasteful though it may be to those who disdain religion in all its forms, is that the very thing most atheists hate is what they have become: a religion, with clearly defined rules, eschatology and a philosophy by which to live. Religion is a means of understanding our existence. Atheism fits that bill.

The military instills a set of core values good citizens live by-- Do not kill thy neighbor, do not steal from thy neighbor, ect, ect, ect..the ten commandments per say. They certainly do not promote Gluttony in the service. Lust for the most part is kept separate of military life.

Or perhaps I am just telling you the United States Marine Corps standards I realize not all branches from every country are created equal

 

[DeletedUser47572]

I don't believe that the child needs a white lie, children are more than capable to handle any information that you give them and fluffing it up to make is softer yes I do agree that there is an argument for that, however that is not something I would chose to do.

If asked where do we go if when we die the answer is simple "I believe that we go no where we simply die which is why it is so important to live your life to its fullest extent". That would be my answer without question.

I couldn't disagree more that atheism is a religion, it is a view that you hold when you consider all the facts and reach logical conclusions. If you want to tag me with a religion then I am a Darwinian.

 

[DeletedUser]

on a slightly lesser note nice sig dave *ahem*

jokes

p.s. im atheist and i don't see how you could label it a religion

 

[DeletedUser47572]

I knew someone would bring that up sooner or later! LOL

Its quite a famous saying from the Parachute regiment slightly off topic this but never mind it spawned from when the Parachute regiment fought the Nazi's up to Arnhem and Ninmejen they fought with such ferocity that Hitler named them the Red Devils as at that time the para's did not wear a helmet but went into battle with their maroon berets on, he said that such a fighting force could have only been sent by the devil himself.

 

[DeletedUser]

ye it just made me laugh and i couldn't resist pointing it out. i knew it was a saying as one of my friends (distant) is in the paras thats probably were i heard it from.

 

[DeletedUser]

how are you sure this is true, it is only a theory, and has a 1/100 chance of being correct!
And how do you know that god didnt make the big bang happen?

I never said I was sure I just think it is the best explanation I have heard. I do not pretend to know things I really don't know unlike religious people who think they know with out question how everything started. I have found no evidence of any god or deity existing and since it lacks any evidence it can basically be dismissed as a legitimate explanation.

 

[DeletedUser]

I was raised a Christian as a child and I often could not sleep because I was panicked about going to hell. I think either way it can have negative impacts on children but you know what they will eventually cope. I think if I was a parent though I would not bring up death to much or go into detail when asked about it just they are in a better place or its just a ever lasting slumber. But if you have to bring up heaven or what not I think you should break the fantasy same time as santa easter bunny kinda deal. Even better place is not bringing up religion it just depends on your world view if not living is better than living or not.

Also atheism is in no way a religion. Atheism is to religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

 

[DeletedUser]

I will not argue the semantics with you all.

Atheism fits the bill of a religion just the same as any other set of beliefs. Ya'll with that viewpoint are so used to automatically associating religion with "God" or a higher power. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality-- which you are mistaken it for!

 

[DeletedUser]

Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning, by establishing symbols that relate humanity to truths and values.[1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.

Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

Atheism is not a cultural system it is just the opposite of being theist which is in no way a cultural system.

 

[DeletedUser47572]

I will not argue the semantics with you all.

Atheism fits the bill of a religion just the same as any other set of beliefs. Ya'll with that viewpoint are so used to automatically associating religion with "God" or a higher power. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality-- which you are mistaken it for!

Disagree again going to define it this way religion no matter which one you look at bases everything upon faith and belief and faith and belief alone with no evidence to prove the existence of higher powers.

Atheists do not accept things upon faith and belief but upon logic, fact and reasoning. The difference between the two should be obvious.