The Lies of BD and [CRY]/Fraseryeah

[DeletedUser]

I've got a question! You quoted

now, i cannot say who, but a higher power from the north wants HAM gone, and paj and co also" and "nyway, we have a very strong relationship, with this higher power from the north ( repete this and i will be very very angry ) but we are going to work with them, to delete HAM

As being your credible proof. This "higher power from the north" you surmise to be BD.

paj and co is obviously pajuno and Phoenx, correct? Based on this quote, they also wanted you gone? They also want to fight you? Where exactly are they then? This is Pajuno's post in the other thread...He clearly wants you gone :icon_rolleyes:

If one half of the quote is already suspect, I wouldn't try to derive proof from the other half.

This is the best proof you had? I'm disappointed. It looks like you're desperately looking hard to find a so-called alliance, and are willing to see it anywhere. You take the smallest comment as your "proof" despite everything that's already been said. A bit bull-headed, but meh, I guess that's your "right"

Yes, that means he was lying.

I claimed that BD and CRY were allied. This was known since the R.inc war. Where you double teamed R.inc. Fraseryeah then claims it in this conversation. So now he was lying and I was wrong...

hmmm

Actually, it was known from the R.Inc war that BD had PA's in [CRY]. We've been quite frank about who are allies are this entire world. I guess BloodHood can't help being paranoid, but, is this the action of allies?

Side 1:
Tribes: BD
Players:

Side 2:
Tribes: [CRY]
Players:

Timeframe: Last month
Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 11
Side 2: 4
Difference: 7

Not a war, but simply expanding. Do you usually expand into your allies?

Which still shows I'm right. [CRY] organised a coalition upon HAM!!!. You denied any coalition at all. You claimed was war was because of sniping and recruiting. But if Fraser was planning this war with BD involved before even anything happened, doesn't look good on BD does it?

I believe we have denied being a part of any coalition, or attempting to gather a coalition. The fact that other tribes have seized upon this opportunity is your problem, not ours.

 

[tomas torquemada]

just thought I would post some stats in case anyone is wondering how things have gone in last 3 months

Side 1:
Tribes: BD
Players:
Side 2:
Tribes: HAM!!!
Players:
Timeframe: Last 3 months
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 69
Side 2: 6
Difference: 63

Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 612,733
Side 2: 47,844
Difference: 564,889

I also believe we have had

7 players leave Ham in 7 days
1 player left BD in 7 days

I think it is only a matter of time, before ham start to slip down the rankings and who knows there may be a point where the damage starts to become critical and the players scatter to the surrounding tribes, however I doubt they will find safe quarter from BD

with all this said i still wish all the best to the HAM players standing their ground and putting up a fight.

TT

 

[spleen mage]

It's not whining, that is your choice completely.

Yes, it is, lol

Whine:

1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch

Fits the bill completley. Your arguments are childish; you wrongly state that BD are lying based on very little evidence, and then stomp around shouting "OMGZ ITS OBVIOUS THEY R LyING, I WANT THE TRUTH!!!". You then proceed to call other peoples arguments pathetic, and resort to ignoring them if you can't think of a decent response.

Just because you believe something to be the truth, does not make it so.

I won't tell you how to conduct your diplomacy. But I will not stand by whilst it is lied about. Which has unfolded in this thread. First it was claimed no coalition from anyone. Then I bring this, then I'm told it was faked?

Wrong, people said conversations are easy to fake. No-one said it was fake. Nice attempt at twisting the truth.

Fraser tells the truth and says it was real. It's quite some story that unfolds.

Which proves what? The conversation is not evidence in the slightest. A higher power in the north? BD's name is not even mentioned. However, I accept that it is likely that it's BD being referred too. But....

"We have a strong relationship with" does not neccesarily mean allies or even NAP's; infact, if they had any official stance with BD, they would have probably mentioned it, rather then saying "strong relationship". And (no disrespect to CRY) but smaller tribes often like to assume that they are on good terms with more powerful tribes, even if it's not the case; often a tribe can assume they are on good terms simply because they've exchanged mails with a member or two. It doesn't mean that they have any relations with BD at all; you've jumped the gun by a long shot.

To have solid proof, you'd need to have reliable evidence of BD actually agreeing to relations with these tribes, or mails showing they planned this together. A mail with one person saying "they're on good terms" is not good enough.

I'm not sure if you think finding this mythical "proof" will help restore your bruised and battered ego, or restore some of your in game pride, but good luck trying to find it.

 

[Apathetic h0llygh0st]

If you want stats of the first week and I suggest you take the stats of the first week rather than than last 3 months...

And sure we will slip in the rankings, since we onyl noble a bit more than that what we lose right now we will start slipping, but we'll egt our act togetehr soon :icon_smile: I'm no worried.

 

[Deleted User - 3135]

I've got a question! You quoted



As being your credible proof. This "higher power from the north" you surmise to be BD.

paj and co is obviously pajuno and Phoenx, correct? Based on this quote, they also wanted you gone? They also want to fight you? Where exactly are they then? This is Pajuno's post in the other thread...He clearly wants you gone :icon_rolleyes:

If one half of the quote is already suspect, I wouldn't try to derive proof from the other half.

This is the best proof you had? I'm disappointed. It looks like you're desperately looking hard to find a so-called alliance, and are willing to see it anywhere. You take the smallest comment as your "proof" despite everything that's already been said. A bit bull-headed, but meh, I guess that's your "right"



Actually, it was known from the R.Inc war that BD had PA's in [CRY]. We've been quite frank about who are allies are this entire world. I guess BloodHood can't help being paranoid, but, is this the action of allies?

Side 1:
Tribes: BD
Players:

Side 2:
Tribes: [CRY]
Players:

Timeframe: Last month
Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 11
Side 2: 4
Difference: 7

Not a war, but simply expanding. Do you usually expand into your allies?



I believe we have denied being a part of any coalition, or attempting to gather a coalition. The fact that other tribes have seized upon this opportunity is your problem, not ours.

As I said, I can't get proof direct from BDs forum. If I'm wrong, the I'm wrong, I've accepted that, but as I said, let other people make the judgement on the information provided. Where would you be expanding? Gicu has admitted your very strong relationship on K55 if not more. Whilst come on, ofcourse he is talking about BD, or intended Die to think that.

Just proving their is a coalition, which was denied, BD definitely knew about it, and the reasons given for war were incorrect due to planning pre-dating those actions.

 

[DeletedUser22924]

i have read(somewhere in this thread) that the convos could be forged or false.

but i also read in another thread that BD ins't guilty till proven otherwise.

:icon_confused:

shouldn't this also apply to the convos, they are real till proven false.:icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

I never said I spoke for the entire community, only suggested that anyone with half a brain and common sense (I'm sorry you dont fall into this catagory btw :lol can see what has gone on with the way things have unfolded :icon_wink:

I had hoped that this would be the majority of the W30 community but if you say I am wrong then apologies are due to those who dont meet the criteria mentioned above :lol:

What are you, some sort of imbecile ?

Just because someone doesn't belive that the OP proves BD forming a coalition doesn't mean they don't have half a brain.

Go crawl back into obscurity if you're going to make sweeping asinine judgements like that.
Just about the only thing me and BH agree on is that its for teh reader to decide.

For a nobody crawling out of nowhere such as yourself to immediately judge that a a person can only have half a brain/common sense if they agree with the point of view that you decided on just points at a simple minded forum troll.

@ castro : its been found that the conversations are genuine. However they don't seem to have a point that relates between BD and HAM.

 

[DeletedUser22924]

i yust read it i skipped the 3rd page, sorry

 

[DeletedUser]

This all reminds me to much of the W24 Kinky failure.. Where a certain number one ranked tribe Kinky an there leaders tried pulling this same ole song and dance, funny part is some of there leaders are here maybe trying a remake of a failed W24 tactic? To bad it was a crash n burn there where they went down in ashes :lol: Hopefully, maybe they have a chance here at it.

 

[DeletedUser]

As I said, I can't get proof direct from BDs forum. If I'm wrong, the I'm wrong, I've accepted that, but as I said, let other people make the judgement on the information provided. Where would you be expanding? Gicu has admitted your very strong relationship on K55 if not more. Whilst come on, ofcourse he is talking about BD, or intended Die to think that.

Just proving their is a coalition, which was denied, BD definitely knew about it, and the reasons given for war were incorrect due to planning pre-dating those actions.

The latter of the bolded is probably the more appropriate term. Was frazer being manipulative in his conversation? Quite possibly. Note, I'm not here to disagree with the claim that there may be a coalition of tribes against HAM!!!. Hell, I'll agree with the fact that our attacking or news of our attacking was probably a motivating factor for many of these other tribes despite the fact that we've not had any contact with them at all.

I'm simply here making the claim that we are not a part of it.

All you've really proven is an attempt at gathering a group of tribes by frazer, who felt he had to do a little "name dropping/referencing" to convince other tribes. Seeing as how you say this conversation took place over a month ago, he was probably hoping that we would join his attempts at gathering a group of tribes.

We didn't. I've had mails, I've declined. I've shown that before.

 

[DeletedUser22924]

the convo might not be 'solid evidence'but it does point into a possible coalation against HAM!!!

 

[DeletedUser]

the convo might not be 'solid evidence'but it does point into a possible coalation against HAM!!!

I'm not going to argue that.

I'm simply arguing that namedropping doesn't make BD a part of it. It's just that a single conversation from over a month ago doesn't seem convincing. Perhaps if we had had a lot more "name dropping" with tribes that were actually attacking HAM!!! (because as far as I know, Die. and Phoenx aren't doing anything), then it would be more relevant.

There's nothing I can do to stop name dropping, its a fact of life. I can somewhat-sorta-kinda-but-not-really see where BH is getting his assumptions from, but I think I've shown more evidence on the contrary at trying to avoid a coalition then in trying to join/make one.

That being said, I'm sure BloodHood will appreciate the humor:

It will just be my job to prove this won't it, though proving otherwise from a non-leader mail of Draco sounds highlyshaky to me

 

[Deleted User - 3135]

The latter of the bolded is probably the more appropriate term. Was frazer being manipulative in his conversation? Quite possibly. Note, I'm not here to disagree with the claim that there may be a coalition of tribes against HAM!!!. Hell, I'll agree with the fact that our attacking or news of our attacking was probably a motivating factor for many of these other tribes despite the fact that we've not had any contact with them at all.

I'm simply here making the claim that we are not a part of it.

All you've really proven is an attempt at gathering a group of tribes by frazer, who felt he had to do a little "name dropping/referencing" to convince other tribes. Seeing as how you say this conversation took place over a month ago, he was probably hoping that we would join his attempts at gathering a group of tribes.

We didn't. I've had mails, I've declined. I've shown that before.

And that BD knew about it, even if I have not proven in it yourselves, since ofcourse you are in your right to claim he was lying. However, it does show that war planning pre-dated any R.inc joining, or any conquers in K55. It shows [CRY] to completely be lying, and that BD was only ever showing the cards of what you knew we know, and everyone knows that may still be the case since I cannot prove otherwise; leaving it up to them, as I keep saying.

 

[DeletedUser]

And that BD knew about it, even if I have not proven in it yourselves, since ofcourse you are in your right to claim he was lying. However, it does show that war planning pre-dated any R.inc joining, or any conquers in K55. It shows [CRY] to completely be lying, and that BD was only ever showing the cards of what you knew we know, and everyone knows that may still be the case since I cannot prove otherwise; leaving it up to them, as I keep saying.

I guess "showing you the cards of what we knew you knew" would mean that I went above and beyond when I showed the mails of Draco. I don't care what proof can be gathered about [CRY], and whether or not they lied. This thread isn't simply about [CRY], but the claim that BD lies as well. That is of course, your ultimate goal.

I stand by my previous statement that I've done a lot more to show that BD has avoided coalitions. It was fully our intent to attack you (though not as far back as a month ago, I think it may have only been mentioned at times as to the tribes future who we could possibly war, but wasn't set in stone). I fail to see how BD knew about a coalition or Frazers attempt at gathering one.

You make the claim that my evidence is shaky before you post yours, and this is what you have? Your "evidence" is based on a conversation from over a month ago between two tribes, one of which has as far as I can see from the stats not expressed any hostility towards you. Your "evidence" contains namedropping of Phoenx/Pajuno and a possible reference to BD. Are you claiming that Pajuno and company are now a part of this coalition against you based solely on the fact that there name was mentioned as well (because if you want to claim so for us, you'll have to claim so for them)?

You really are digging too deep.

 

[Apathetic h0llygh0st]

I'm not going to argue that.

I'm simply arguing that namedropping doesn't make BD a part of it. It's just that a single conversation from over a month ago doesn't seem convincing. Perhaps if we had had a lot more "name dropping" with tribes that were actually attacking HAM!!! (because as far as I know, Die. and Phoenx aren't doing anything), then it would be more relevant.

There's nothing I can do to stop name dropping, its a fact of life. I can somewhat-sorta-kinda-but-not-really see where BH is getting his assumptions from, but I think I've shown more evidence on the contrary at trying to avoid a coalition then in trying to join/make one.

That being said, I'm sure BloodHood will appreciate the humor:

You keep repeating this... Yet thats just what we mean, that this was planned. That and the mails posted by Gicu show us that they infact knew of other tribes planning on HAM!!! and because of that awareness you knew that there was going to be a gangbang.

So why do you keep denying it? You dont need to work together with tribes since BD alone is enough to make succesfull OP's in your area. and the other tribes are located in diff area's. Your members do work together with Cry in a regional way to prevent crossnoblings (Which does happen seeing the ennoblements between Cry and BD) But you DID know that a gangbanging was coming, so instead of denying that you work together with this tribes just admit that you were aware. because we know that your noble leaders didnt plan this gangbanging but even withotu any active cooperation on a tribal level you Cry and others do form a coalition. There is no denying that anymore imo. Your local player will support cry if Cry needs their help and Cry will do the same for you. You only have a fine border to cooperate on it but I'm on that border and I know that there ae plenty of mails between BD and Cry that show that you are indeed cooperating so please please stop denying it.

... Damn what a wall of text about one stupid subject from me =/

 

[DeletedUser]

You keep repeating this... Yet thats just what we mean, that this was planned. That and the mails posted by Gicu show us that they infact knew of other tribes planning on HAM!!! and because of that awareness you knew that there was going to be a gangbang.

See above, as I still fail to see how this was planned a month ago, or that we knew Frazer was gathering a coalition. There was tension between us a month ago, but war plans? No.

You could please link me to these mails posted by Gicusan? Unless I missed a post, I went through every post of his in this thread and I don't see any mails posted by him.

So far, I like how the claims by HAM!!! are going. At first, we are the instigators and or trying to gather tribes in a coalition against you. Next we only knew about other tribes going to attack. What's the third going to be?

 

[Deleted User - 3135]

I guess "showing you the cards of what we knew you knew" would mean that I went above and beyond when I showed the mails of Draco. I don't care what proof can be gathered about [CRY], and whether or not they lied. This thread isn't simply about [CRY], but the claim that BD lies as well. That is of course, your ultimate goal.

I stand by my previous statement that I've done a lot more to show that BD has avoided coalitions. It was fully our intent to attack you (though not as far back as a month ago, I think it may have only been mentioned at times as to the tribes future who we could possibly war, but wasn't set in stone). I fail to see how BD knew about a coalition or Frazers attempt at gathering one.

You make the claim that my evidence is shaky before you post yours, and this is what you have? Your "evidence" is based on a conversation from over a month ago between two tribes, one of which has as far as I can see from the stats not expressed any hostility towards you. Your "evidence" contains namedropping of Phoenx/Pajuno and a possible reference to BD. Are you claiming that Pajuno and company are now a part of this coalition against you based solely on the fact that there name was mentioned as well (because if you want to claim so for us, you'll have to claim so for them)?

You really are digging too deep.

Your 'evidence' was from some random player who could hardly speak English. Completely different league. And no this evidence shows CRY wanted Pajuno removed as well. How is that digging deep? Think you have to admit you screwed up above. :icon_confused:

 

[DeletedUser]

Your 'evidence' was from some random player who could hardly speak English. Completely different league. And no this evidence shows CRY wanted Pajuno removed as well. How is that digging deep? Think you have to admit you screwed up above. :icon_confused:

Perhaps I misinterpretted the following (a possibility)

"now, i cannot say who, but a higher power from the north wants HAM gone, and paj and co also" (this is what you quoted as important)

At first, I took that to mean that this "higher power from the north" (implied to be BD) AS WELL AS paj and co want HAM!!! gone.

In reading it again, I could also see how it means this "higher power from the north" wants HAM!!! AND Phoenx gone. And since this seems to be what you actually meant, it brings up another thought of mine questioning the validity of your "evidence"

What possible interest could BD have with Phoenx???

 

[DeletedUser]

You know the previous post gave me a idea...

[/quote]

 

[DeletedUser]

So Obviously

BD is Red
Ham!!! is Blue
Phoenx is Yellow

[CRY] is White
Smurfs is Aqua... " The Higher Power "

Anyone else notice the Distance between us ( Ham!!! ) and Them ( Smurfs ) ...

Wierd..