DeletedUser
Guest
I hope that I have made my point though. When in doubt, look to the facts.
ampac
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 112
Sad thing about that instead of focusing in the Skirmish Between Spam and Calm, he just decided to internal, focusing on his own growth while letting others in the frontline die.
As you could see under his leadership lots of players started losing villages because of selfishness and greed..Infact lots of players quit this world due to his leadership and backstabbing tactics.
He recruited players so they could be their meatshields, like, spunky, bloodstar, gorillaz, Nadss players, former Valour members giving them promises that are not true, some players decided to break Alliances on our tribe because of it, simple look at their stats would show what they are fighting for.
Real Pathetic, well if your a Jfsmith fan who admire his work then I commend you on your nice goals..
ampac
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 112
Your completly wrong, in war you should focus on helping tribesmates instead of letting your account grow..Selfish players has all the reason in the world that they can justify internalling is more important that fighting for the tribe.
HTM is completly diffrent in your situation as he is sending support, organizing attacks and tactics...Don't you notice all the players that are killed are near his areas, Relentless, Spunky, who else, Nitto all of them are destroyed because your leader focused more on your internals.....Real Pathetic no wonder players in your tribe are leaving...Just look at Fifth element he is disgusted with tribe...
No wonder they are Pissed. LOL*
DeletedUser
Guest
Nice pun on the pissed. Just an honest question here. Don't you think that saving the tribes points by internaling to protect them from the enemy is for the best of the tribe? If the goal is to stop SPAM at all costs, then JF did nothing wrong. Also, I wish that people would use more facts when they post. For instance... Do you actually know where JF's support is and where every one of his attacks is going? How do you know he is not helping? Also, FEC did not leave because he was fed up lol.
King Sean04
Guest
Let's just put it this way Jorge, the best way to "protect" a tribes points is to help the frontline accounts with support, sitting, moving to the front, etc., to take the heat off these accounts. The fact jf would rather internal backline inactives instead of SPAM shows what type of leader he is. Backline internals can wait. The losses calm/pissed have suffered on the frontlines will be difficult to get back.
ampac
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 112
Ok, I highlighted the ones that needed to be answered, first internalling villages would not affect the war or skirmish effort in the tribe, 2nd If you want to stop Spam at all cost, Jfsmith should have lead by example by being a warlord instead on munching all those free villas. Third, if Jfsmith actually did send all those support and attacks that you have claimed then vit would be real hard for spam to take villages of calm.
And also FEC left because he can't believe that his leaders priorities were internals instead of leading the tribe.
A just leader should lead by example, if the leader has all the reasons in the world and keep blaming others...well..
Nicely said Sean. thanks for understanding my points..A leader should lead by example.
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DeletedUser
Guest
Well I agree with you to an extent. Jf helping clear up is helping reduce Calm. losses. However he is clearing up in the wrong places. Of the 264 Calm. internals Jf has taken in the last month, a vast majority of them have been in K52/62. That is nearly 3 continents away from SPAM's nearest village and very close to his main cluster.
HTM on the other hand, whilst also not clearing up frontline villages, has taken only 38 internals in the last month. He has also taken 106 Calm./PISSED villages compared to Jf's 12 SPAM villages. Jfs ODA has increased 2.9 million in the last month compared to HTM's 15.2 million (34.5Ds killed vs 190Ds killed). One could assume that most of that ODA goes towards the SPAM-Calm. war.
DeletedUser
Guest
JF helped me (on bloodstaar) , albeit too little too shitty too late, but helped me. Sent me some support, and after the elections were over he seemed to help around more with the tribe, but then fighting for power started..
Doesn't change my opinion tho.
The lack of a competent leadership (not saying there isn't good material in Calm,now PISSED) are the downfall of this tribe.
They did the most stupid thing possible too.
Quit&Disband.
I would call them craven,cowards, but the words I want to actually use would get me warnings and such.
I would say ampac is right, but time member isnt. I don't see internals&Jf as an issue. But considering the lack of competent organization, it becomes one.Internals shouldve been done on frontline first,not in the midst of Calm.
(spunky,nitto,katzuo,etc etc)
my 1.52 cents.
Doesn't change my opinion tho.
The lack of a competent leadership (not saying there isn't good material in Calm,now PISSED) are the downfall of this tribe.
They did the most stupid thing possible too.
Quit&Disband.
I would call them craven,cowards, but the words I want to actually use would get me warnings and such.
I would say ampac is right, but time member isnt. I don't see internals&Jf as an issue. But considering the lack of competent organization, it becomes one.Internals shouldve been done on frontline first,not in the midst of Calm.
(spunky,nitto,katzuo,etc etc)
my 1.52 cents.
DeletedUser
Guest
Well here is my opinion. The issues about Jf's internals, about support and nuking are irrelevant when talking about his contribution to the war effort. Jf is the leader of PISSED, his contribution to their success or failure is way more important than internalling, supporting and nuking. He could send out all of his nukes towards a target and still have ar less impact on PISSED.'s success than his influence as a leader.
Let me give you an example from my end in a two week period at an intense part of a war.
Tribal Op (12 hours)
- This is most likely split into three parts on different areas on a tribe Calm's size to hit several areas of the front. Each part takes 3 hours to plan. I won't get into the specifics here, but anyone who has planned tribal Ops on a scale of a tribe SPAM's size knows.
- These Ops have to then be sent to players individually. With 50 or so members like SPAM has, that is 2-5 minutes per mail as each has to be customised for specific targets/fake scripts for a total of around 2 hours to send out fully.
- Another hour is spent handling replies to mails sent out and changing targets etc.
Follow Up (2 hours)
- 20 minutes is used to send a CM reminding people to communicate so easy takes can be picked up.
- Further mails are sent individually to get support from just behind the front for players without spare D and then from the back. This takes about 1.5 hours.
Stacking (3-6 hours)
- Most likely, as it is an intense period of the war, a frontline guy is going to be Opped and need some support. Hopefully you have already prestacked, but topping up will be needed. You will have to work through with your frontline guy how much support he needs and where, this will take about an hour as your frontline guy is probably overestimating how much he needs.
- Then you are going to have to find people to support this guy and make them support him within the time limit and send mails to them to send support. This takes a further two hours.
- You may have to repeat the above process twice if the enemy attacks two players.
Sitting (30.5 hours)
- Players on your front will need sitting. As leader, it is good to sit players on the front to assess the conditions up there as well as to boost morale. This is 30 hours physically on the account and defending it and this can be a lot higher depending on what accounts you sit.
- Most probably will also have to send a mail/forum post about lack of participation in sits to get people sitting so it doesn't degenerate into the generic few. This will take half hour.
Forums (6 hours)
- Even on forums as scarce as SPAMs, it takes time to read them. Lets say this takes 20 minutes a day as well as 5 minutes to moderate and clean up stuff. This comes out to about 6 hours in 2 weeks.
Skype (30 hours)
- Need to read the whole skype chat, even at my fast reading speed, this takes about 20 minutes a day for a total of 5 hours.
- Then in various other skype chats such as area based chats, which take about 10 minutes a day for around 2 hours total.
- Need to spend an hour a day conversing to various people in SPAM both in those chats and Via PM about general issues (14 hours).
- 2 hours a week on diplomacy with other tribes either via skype or PM. (4 hours)
- Theres also going to be more important conversations about strategy and organising support (5 hours).
PMs (13 hours)
- Fake script every 3 days. Sending out one for the whole tribe is too obvious so several will need to be sent out. This takes 1 hour per time for a total of 5 hours.
- Read your inbox and reply to mail, taking about half an hour a day (7 hours).
- General Update sent out about war progress (1 hour)
And there you have it, the leadership's workload is up to 100 hours in two weeks even when working quickly. This can be shared between several people, corners can be cut, but during the most intense periods of the Calm. war (for example), I did a considerable amount of this myself.
And what if you don't do this during a period of time where your tribe really needs it against a tribe which can capitalize on that?
You are screwed.
Nevermind internals or rank, I don't have time to internal or grow...I need to do the above to help make everyone elses lives easier. Ever wondered why leaderships are the weak points of tribes? It is because they look at that work and think: "screw that, Im having a beer". There is nothing glorious about leading properly, it is a full time job with no pay. The best leaders lead because they love the tribe and players and want them to succeed and have fun and sacrifice a huge amount of time when it is is needed in order to make it happen.
Let me give you an example from my end in a two week period at an intense part of a war.
Tribal Op (12 hours)
- This is most likely split into three parts on different areas on a tribe Calm's size to hit several areas of the front. Each part takes 3 hours to plan. I won't get into the specifics here, but anyone who has planned tribal Ops on a scale of a tribe SPAM's size knows.
- These Ops have to then be sent to players individually. With 50 or so members like SPAM has, that is 2-5 minutes per mail as each has to be customised for specific targets/fake scripts for a total of around 2 hours to send out fully.
- Another hour is spent handling replies to mails sent out and changing targets etc.
Follow Up (2 hours)
- 20 minutes is used to send a CM reminding people to communicate so easy takes can be picked up.
- Further mails are sent individually to get support from just behind the front for players without spare D and then from the back. This takes about 1.5 hours.
Stacking (3-6 hours)
- Most likely, as it is an intense period of the war, a frontline guy is going to be Opped and need some support. Hopefully you have already prestacked, but topping up will be needed. You will have to work through with your frontline guy how much support he needs and where, this will take about an hour as your frontline guy is probably overestimating how much he needs.
- Then you are going to have to find people to support this guy and make them support him within the time limit and send mails to them to send support. This takes a further two hours.
- You may have to repeat the above process twice if the enemy attacks two players.
Sitting (30.5 hours)
- Players on your front will need sitting. As leader, it is good to sit players on the front to assess the conditions up there as well as to boost morale. This is 30 hours physically on the account and defending it and this can be a lot higher depending on what accounts you sit.
- Most probably will also have to send a mail/forum post about lack of participation in sits to get people sitting so it doesn't degenerate into the generic few. This will take half hour.
Forums (6 hours)
- Even on forums as scarce as SPAMs, it takes time to read them. Lets say this takes 20 minutes a day as well as 5 minutes to moderate and clean up stuff. This comes out to about 6 hours in 2 weeks.
Skype (30 hours)
- Need to read the whole skype chat, even at my fast reading speed, this takes about 20 minutes a day for a total of 5 hours.
- Then in various other skype chats such as area based chats, which take about 10 minutes a day for around 2 hours total.
- Need to spend an hour a day conversing to various people in SPAM both in those chats and Via PM about general issues (14 hours).
- 2 hours a week on diplomacy with other tribes either via skype or PM. (4 hours)
- Theres also going to be more important conversations about strategy and organising support (5 hours).
PMs (13 hours)
- Fake script every 3 days. Sending out one for the whole tribe is too obvious so several will need to be sent out. This takes 1 hour per time for a total of 5 hours.
- Read your inbox and reply to mail, taking about half an hour a day (7 hours).
- General Update sent out about war progress (1 hour)
And there you have it, the leadership's workload is up to 100 hours in two weeks even when working quickly. This can be shared between several people, corners can be cut, but during the most intense periods of the Calm. war (for example), I did a considerable amount of this myself.
And what if you don't do this during a period of time where your tribe really needs it against a tribe which can capitalize on that?
You are screwed.
Nevermind internals or rank, I don't have time to internal or grow...I need to do the above to help make everyone elses lives easier. Ever wondered why leaderships are the weak points of tribes? It is because they look at that work and think: "screw that, Im having a beer". There is nothing glorious about leading properly, it is a full time job with no pay. The best leaders lead because they love the tribe and players and want them to succeed and have fun and sacrifice a huge amount of time when it is is needed in order to make it happen.
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ashoka1
Guest
you forgot time for externals & pnp. .
DeletedUser
Guest
We do not know where JF's D is, however you would expect an account like that to have atleast 700 O villas, just under a 1:1, But i dont think many of those nukes have been used.
Also we know that HTM's D is on the front, but also that his nukes were instrumental in taking down spunky/nitto etcetera. I mean who wants almost 1k nukes heading at you from a single player...
Plus you have to remember JF is calm's leader, so he should be leading by example, eg dylan on orourke, And HTM is just a beast, well a schizophrenic beast, so many personalities, so they should be focussing on growing, whereas JF should put tribe before account.
Yeah how could you...
DeletedUser
Guest
I agree with most of what you guys are saying, but JF's leadership abilities were heavily restricted. He was not the Duke of Calm. Damian was. The reason for Calm disbanding is because of rage quitting by Damian. What you don't realize is that JF had been taking on a large issue and doing the best he could to lead based on the restrictions of Damian. The only reason there still exists a tribe of the members of Calm is because JF WAS leading. NOW after this SPAM war is over between PISSED and CALM, only then can we judge the leadership skills of JF as he is duke and in full control this time. But I do see the point you are making. I just think there is a lot of behind the scenes things that have been overlooked.
ampac
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 112
Hmmm...Dunno whats your point in all of that? A leader is a leader a leader should lead by example, internalling while in time of war is pathetic, a leader who blames other leader is much more pathetic..:icon_wink:
Im just pointing out circumstances, stats don't lie, even if you reason out his hands is tied he could have sent all his supports on the frontlines, nuked the shit out a target and let the tribe gobbled him out. If you see members fighting and they see one of the leaders internalling that would really suck.
Meh, you have seen many of your tribesmates destroyed, where is the cocky leaders of Calm now? Why are they blaming others instead of blaming themselves......:icon_biggrin:
DeletedUser
Guest
I am very grateful to all who have stood up for my account here, its very cute and I love you all <3
Yes, HTM made a high rank quickly through internals - I will give you that, and everyone knows it, but the difference between my account and others who are making plays for the top through internals is this: We earned them. Don't understand that? HTM has been a leading frontline account in every war its participated in so far, and we plan to continue to be one. We have never internalled en-masse in the middle of a war, unlike others mentioned before in this thread. When wars are over, and we have survived again, we take our share of those who couldn't keep up or deal with the pressure, and share the rest between our friends and followers. That is a reward of the aftermath war, not an advantage to be squeezed from the chaos of the main part of it.
I'd also like to point out that we don't exactly waste the villages we take by sitting around letting the troops inside them get fat. Everything we do, we do for our tribe and our friends, and we put everything we have into contributing to their success.
Thanks
Ben
<3
Yes, HTM made a high rank quickly through internals - I will give you that, and everyone knows it, but the difference between my account and others who are making plays for the top through internals is this: We earned them. Don't understand that? HTM has been a leading frontline account in every war its participated in so far, and we plan to continue to be one. We have never internalled en-masse in the middle of a war, unlike others mentioned before in this thread. When wars are over, and we have survived again, we take our share of those who couldn't keep up or deal with the pressure, and share the rest between our friends and followers. That is a reward of the aftermath war, not an advantage to be squeezed from the chaos of the main part of it.
I'd also like to point out that we don't exactly waste the villages we take by sitting around letting the troops inside them get fat. Everything we do, we do for our tribe and our friends, and we put everything we have into contributing to their success.
Thanks
Ben
<3
DeletedUser
Guest
This is the 3rd support I've had to new caps from jfsmith to Ventrilous... So he is sending some. Very little and much, much to late though.
From: jfsmith3
Origin: V0299 (169|493) K41
To: TjHooker
Destination: Drones (672|650) K66
Units: 4006 0 0 4007 0 0 0 2002 0 0 0 0
From: jfsmith3
Origin: V0299 (169|493) K41
To: TjHooker
Destination: Drones (672|650) K66
Units: 4006 0 0 4007 0 0 0 2002 0 0 0 0
DeletedUser
Guest
Good points to everyone and props to those using stats. I've got no stats left to pull out of my butt, sorry 
ampac
Contributing Poster
- Reaction score
- 112
DeletedUser
Guest
He was always in control of Calm., to a domineering extent and anyone who thinks Damian actually led calm. at any point in the war is a fool. Damian is a convenient scapegoat to cover up problems with Calm and jf's leadership.
Looking at the current warstats:
80% of PISSED's ODA is Uk Patriot
60% of PISSED's Caps are Uk Patriot
There are only 5 Cappers from PISSED in the last 3 days, of which 3 of which just recapped villages. Just like Calm., it seems PISSED are sitting back and internalling and barbnboling ATM. We will see yet if Jf is willing to put in that 100 hours or if he is going to have another break from TW like he did with Calm. when the going got tough.
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DeletedUser
Guest
DeletedUser
Guest
That's not funny. LOL
I hope Havok feels like I did when I was desperate for 1 DV to save 4-5 villages
