DeletedUser
Guest
But read hebrews of you need a Jewish confermation of Christ? It an Angel testifing of his lord..
DeletedUser
Guest
And to you, staal, I answered your question of what happend to everyone before Christianity.. If you care to read what I wrote as you claim to already have done.. And whether or not it is personal to you, It is personal to me.. I can't seperated myself from the spiritual delima you face.. It saddens and sickens me in the same instance..
Athiest's will go to hell because any son of Adam, who refutes his part in sin? Is denying he is a sinner, and the wages of sin is death.. We die because we sin, and our spirit must answer for those sins on the day of judgement.. I know you just can't wrap you mind around it, but your mind is the problem. Try to use your heart once in a while.. You can feel the wrongness, and the right if you try.. God waits for everyone to understand in their 'hearts' what was done for them.
Also, people seem to think there was weakness involved in Christs stand against sin, but I submit to you that more strength then anyone has ever posessed was needed to do what he did willingly.. He came in a spirit of meekness so he might gather those who are not clouded by the phisical world, but read revelations, and you can see where its leading.. Christ will return, and this time he is dealing out justice on a corrupted planet..
I don't understand you're last post "But read hebrews of you need a Jewish confermation of Christ? It an Angel testifing of his lord.."
what do you mean?
Don't remember every post you posted but thanks for the reply and I'm not going to argue as promised. But all I have to say I'm not in a spiritual delima and this is not personal to me and I understand it is to you so why argue if it's only going to cause negative impact. I thought it could be an interesting debate but it went further I guess.
So if I'm thinking this right a large portion of the world will go to hell lets say if they are Hindu or Buddhist? A yes or no will do. Because you say any atheist so they go to heaven right?
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DeletedUser
Guest
I am crying that I missed thus thread. Literally crying. It would be about twice as long, or maybe closer to four times as long, had I been here to post gigantic walls of text every other post.
One, I think that's a common misreading of the story of Genesis, that sin is the cause of death. But I think you have failed to do a few things, one of them is define what sin is, what is the nature of sin in Christianity?
The first answer is of course that which seperates us from God. That is insufficient, because then you are creating a construct which inherently suggests that God could not overcome sin without the strange, pagan sacrifice of Jesus Christ, yet the entire religion is based on the assumption that God is infinite in his reach and power.
Now tell me why is that Christianity makes assumptions about the character of God? Not only does a believer have to posit that huge and unproven assumption that God exists, but he then has to assume that God has human emotions such as anger, jealousy, and a surprising lack of basic self-control as well as some downright cruelty.
Why does the infinite master of the universe have concern over my sexual activities outside of marriage? Or my personnal tastes in movies?
Don't even get me started on the ridiculous concept, mainly in Catholicism I believe, of original sin, that every human is stained from birth. If Christianity wants to pose and wants us to believe it came from the Old Testament then it kinda has to stand by the Old Testament lest it have internal contradictions, and of course the great Prophet Elijah said that "The son shall not pay for the sins of the father."
Why read Jesus as a parable about this great decision rendered by God to join him or suffer, a hand being laid out? One, that's very flawed, because you're putting God in a silly position of needing to use a religion and use people in order to make himself known, (and I won't even get into Christianity's demonization of most natural impulses and the destruction of any semblance of harmony or order with their horrible ideas of the divided soul, the categorization of everything into good and evil). Anyway, back to Christ, as a myth I find the story of Christ is much better understood as a metaphor, saying that God is man and man is god and the suffering of man is the suffering of god and thus if one wants to serve god one must first and foremost serve man, as many liberties as that takes with the Gospel's fine print.
Why really all religion can be understood as the attempt of mankind to rejoin the primal subconscious and again become an unthinking part of nature, but that is a whole nother topic on it's on and one for another time. :icon_eek:
And to you, staal, I answered your question of what happend to everyone before Christianity.. If you care to read what I wrote as you claim to already have done.. And whether or not it is personal to you, It is personal to me.. I can't seperated myself from the spiritual delima you face.. It saddens and sickens me in the same instance..
Athiest's will go to hell because any son of Adam, who refutes his part in sin? Is denying he is a sinner, and the wages of sin is death.. We die because we sin, and our spirit must answer for those sins on the day of judgement.. I know you just can't wrap you mind around it, but your mind is the problem. Try to use your heart once in a while.. You can feel the wrongness, and the right if you try.. God waits for everyone to understand in their 'hearts' what was done for them.
Also, people seem to think there was weakness involved in Christs stand against sin, but I submit to you that more strength then anyone has ever posessed was needed to do what he did willingly.. He came in a spirit of meekness so he might gather those who are not clouded by the phisical world, but read revelations, and you can see where its leading.. Christ will return, and this time he is dealing out justice on a corrupted planet..
One, I think that's a common misreading of the story of Genesis, that sin is the cause of death. But I think you have failed to do a few things, one of them is define what sin is, what is the nature of sin in Christianity?
The first answer is of course that which seperates us from God. That is insufficient, because then you are creating a construct which inherently suggests that God could not overcome sin without the strange, pagan sacrifice of Jesus Christ, yet the entire religion is based on the assumption that God is infinite in his reach and power.
Now tell me why is that Christianity makes assumptions about the character of God? Not only does a believer have to posit that huge and unproven assumption that God exists, but he then has to assume that God has human emotions such as anger, jealousy, and a surprising lack of basic self-control as well as some downright cruelty.
Why does the infinite master of the universe have concern over my sexual activities outside of marriage? Or my personnal tastes in movies?
Don't even get me started on the ridiculous concept, mainly in Catholicism I believe, of original sin, that every human is stained from birth. If Christianity wants to pose and wants us to believe it came from the Old Testament then it kinda has to stand by the Old Testament lest it have internal contradictions, and of course the great Prophet Elijah said that "The son shall not pay for the sins of the father."
Why read Jesus as a parable about this great decision rendered by God to join him or suffer, a hand being laid out? One, that's very flawed, because you're putting God in a silly position of needing to use a religion and use people in order to make himself known, (and I won't even get into Christianity's demonization of most natural impulses and the destruction of any semblance of harmony or order with their horrible ideas of the divided soul, the categorization of everything into good and evil). Anyway, back to Christ, as a myth I find the story of Christ is much better understood as a metaphor, saying that God is man and man is god and the suffering of man is the suffering of god and thus if one wants to serve god one must first and foremost serve man, as many liberties as that takes with the Gospel's fine print.
Why really all religion can be understood as the attempt of mankind to rejoin the primal subconscious and again become an unthinking part of nature, but that is a whole nother topic on it's on and one for another time. :icon_eek:
DeletedUser86749
Guest
I my humble opnion people will always need something to believe in. For some might be a tree , others God. I myself believe in Science. I believe there was a Jesus, though being the son of God I don't think so . He was a polital leader with great values IMO. I do not put anyones beliefs down for everyone is entitled to their own opnions. I do have a problem when a person who murders others and just before they die accepts God into their hearts and lives is given a place in heaven. and the person who doesn't believe in God but lives a honest life helping others and so forth is turned away... If there is a God and those are his rules acoording to the Bible then he is a selfish one.
DeletedUser85607
Guest
*Wonders why every single place i go theres always a discussion about religion*
"Sigh"
Religion for the most part is fake/false made up of jumbled up man made idiocy and laws which are all claimed to be from "God" or "Allah" or "Moses" or "Grishna" or something along those lines....
However in religious teachings and in many items of "Faith" there is a huge amount of common sense and truth to be found for example if one looks at the classic example of Christianities Crucifixion story you notice basic morals such as Sacrifice and many other teachings which you can seperate from the text.... if you look at Islam you will see at the very core of its belief system basic pillars also known as the five pillars which teach basic morals....
Some morals are different to others and what not but generally alot of basic teachings in religion (if you ignore all the crazy stuff like in christianity where it condones sex with a child less than 3 years old or in islam where it condones child brides) but anyways generally alot of teachings in religions can be linked back to basic morals.
Where religion epically fails is that most of it is entirely man made and incorporates ridiculous religious laws and teachings and adds compulsion in the idea of the fact it plays on the Biological instinct of self preservation which ultimately links to our survival instinct which makes all living creates that are self aware afraid of Death and their own mortality this is hugely noticeable in human beings where we have created so many belief systems based on such little evidence so that we can escape the insanity that the fear of death brings that we have even gone to war with eachother over who's god is the right god etc.....
at the end of the day if you pick apart religious teachings to the core you can utterly destroy things like creationism and other idiotic things such as in christianity the idea of a flood and noah's arc etc or in islam the idea that women have to wear a veil and cover themselves head to foot these notions are totally false and can be used to prove religions wrong.
What proof and science cannot prove wrong however is the existance of life after death, for example there is HUGE amounts of evidence for ghosts and things like that and also the conciousness has an Energy/life force and Energy cannot be destroyed it can only change forms so our conciousness/Spirit has to go somewhere when our biological functions stop working.....
The notion of heaven/hell is a good topic to discuss which may have already been discussed.....
I suppose all people find out eventually the answer to the big question: What happens to you when you die?
A devout christian, or muslim or jew or shinto or buddhist or any other religion out there can sit untill they are blue in the face stating this is what they "believe" happens but they do not actually "Know" it to be true because they havent actually tried it yet.....
While alive we are all just guessing at it.
This incredibly long text i can now allow myself to conclude Religion is Fake for the most part but i do offer an interesting philosophy on it dont you think?
"Sigh"
Religion for the most part is fake/false made up of jumbled up man made idiocy and laws which are all claimed to be from "God" or "Allah" or "Moses" or "Grishna" or something along those lines....
However in religious teachings and in many items of "Faith" there is a huge amount of common sense and truth to be found for example if one looks at the classic example of Christianities Crucifixion story you notice basic morals such as Sacrifice and many other teachings which you can seperate from the text.... if you look at Islam you will see at the very core of its belief system basic pillars also known as the five pillars which teach basic morals....
Some morals are different to others and what not but generally alot of basic teachings in religion (if you ignore all the crazy stuff like in christianity where it condones sex with a child less than 3 years old or in islam where it condones child brides) but anyways generally alot of teachings in religions can be linked back to basic morals.
Where religion epically fails is that most of it is entirely man made and incorporates ridiculous religious laws and teachings and adds compulsion in the idea of the fact it plays on the Biological instinct of self preservation which ultimately links to our survival instinct which makes all living creates that are self aware afraid of Death and their own mortality this is hugely noticeable in human beings where we have created so many belief systems based on such little evidence so that we can escape the insanity that the fear of death brings that we have even gone to war with eachother over who's god is the right god etc.....
at the end of the day if you pick apart religious teachings to the core you can utterly destroy things like creationism and other idiotic things such as in christianity the idea of a flood and noah's arc etc or in islam the idea that women have to wear a veil and cover themselves head to foot these notions are totally false and can be used to prove religions wrong.
What proof and science cannot prove wrong however is the existance of life after death, for example there is HUGE amounts of evidence for ghosts and things like that and also the conciousness has an Energy/life force and Energy cannot be destroyed it can only change forms so our conciousness/Spirit has to go somewhere when our biological functions stop working.....
The notion of heaven/hell is a good topic to discuss which may have already been discussed.....
I suppose all people find out eventually the answer to the big question: What happens to you when you die?
A devout christian, or muslim or jew or shinto or buddhist or any other religion out there can sit untill they are blue in the face stating this is what they "believe" happens but they do not actually "Know" it to be true because they havent actually tried it yet.....
While alive we are all just guessing at it.
This incredibly long text i can now allow myself to conclude Religion is Fake for the most part but i do offer an interesting philosophy on it dont you think?
DeletedUser
Guest
it also says anyone can be saved through christ. if you're gonna mention it do homework that deserves better than a D-.:icon_twisted:
DeletedUser
Guest
even if you are not religious can you really imagine there not being a life after death?
DeletedUser
Guest
Yes easily. Biologically it makes sense, our organs and everything just rot up and our heart stops supplying blood and we lose connection to the world around us and then decay. Because its an awful thought does not mean its untrue.
Is there reason behind it apart from the fact that some guys/gals wrote it in some book thousands of years before? *non religious view*
DeletedUser
Guest
The concept of Life after death has a similar basis as ideas such as the earth being at the centre of the universe and humans being in God's image. we came up with them to cover our fear of three things;
1) That after our short lives there is nothing, we are gone forever
2) That we are just one of billions of species on one of trillions of planets; insignificance
3) That we have no purpose in life
Assuming a God does exist (one with all the omni's), there is no reason why humans would be above animals or have an afterlife. Only one philosopher that i know of has tried to argue for a life after death as well as the existance of God and that is Kant who argued; that our purpose is to achieve perfection yet we live in an imperfect universe, therefore there must be a perfect universe in wich we can achieve it. Really, unlike God who many people believe you can prove the existance of, it is impossible to prove the existance of an afterlife without going there.
1) That after our short lives there is nothing, we are gone forever
2) That we are just one of billions of species on one of trillions of planets; insignificance
3) That we have no purpose in life
Assuming a God does exist (one with all the omni's), there is no reason why humans would be above animals or have an afterlife. Only one philosopher that i know of has tried to argue for a life after death as well as the existance of God and that is Kant who argued; that our purpose is to achieve perfection yet we live in an imperfect universe, therefore there must be a perfect universe in wich we can achieve it. Really, unlike God who many people believe you can prove the existance of, it is impossible to prove the existance of an afterlife without going there.
DeletedUser
Guest
i disseagree on 3.
We all have a pupose in life: doing what we want to do.
1) exploring the univers
2) understand everything
3) do what fysics and chemisty says we can't
Going farther eatch time thats what drives us, it makes us human.
if there is a god, we work to become equal or even better then god
if not we work to be better then anything else(basicly the same as if there is a god)
We all have a pupose in life: doing what we want to do.
1) exploring the univers
2) understand everything
3) do what fysics and chemisty says we can't
Going farther eatch time thats what drives us, it makes us human.
if there is a god, we work to become equal or even better then god
if not we work to be better then anything else(basicly the same as if there is a god)
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DeletedUser
Guest
with that sort of thinking i would get depressed and decide that there is no point to living also i am not asking the biological point of veiw can YOU honestly see there being nothing?
DeletedUser
Guest
who said animals don't have an afterlife?
DeletedUser
Guest
where does it say that?
DeletedUser
Guest
evil that is the nature of sin. pure unadulterated EVIL.
DeletedUser
Guest
1. he did'nt we did because we have free will
2.i've never thought of it, i guess that people wernt there so they couldnt put everything the truth (also tower of babel)
3.the devil was origanaly an angel and so people could really have free will
4. no hell is not exactly under as most belive it is like another demension here but not here
5. i just used my brain to think about this
i hope that answered your question:icon_biggrin:
DeletedUser
Guest
1. yaweh
2.he was always there
3.noone he was always there
4.can you disprove his existence?
how is it therapy?
DeletedUser
Guest
how much do you need to write...im not reading that...and i have there for come to a conclusion coz the only post i read was the first one....religion is fake
ya need more info than that.
DeletedUser
Guest
i see this thread as a way so people don't find out wat hell is like.
DeletedUser
Guest
well when you die, come inform us how hell is like, ok?
DeletedUser
Guest
but i'm not going to hell, y...
